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~ The gradual supplanting of the natural by the just

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Tag Archives: polyamory

Your Partner Dating Lots Of People Is Less Scary Than You Think It Is

20 Friday Nov 2020

Posted by ozymandias in sex positivity, social notes

≈ 9 Comments

Tags

polyamory, sex positivity

When I see people talk about polyamory, one concern they often have is that the partner who’s more attractive (or female) will be out every night sleeping with a new person, while the partner who’s less attractive (or male) will spend all their nights alone crying into their bowl of ice cream while watching Netflix.

There is a grain of truth to this. In my experience, it’s very rare for everyone in a primary relationship to be dating exactly the same number of people. Lots of primary poly relationships include one partner who is dating four or five people or having a lot of casual sex, and another one who isn’t. And certainly it’s much easier to have casual sex if you’re more attractive or if you’re a woman.

A lot of people assume that this situation is naturally the sort of thing that makes the left-out partner miserable. They might feel insecure, like their partner is more attractive than they are; they might be envious of their partner’s relative level of sexual success; they might be jealous; they might feel humiliated. And I don’t want to say that those dynamics never happen.

But I think the level of distress caused by one’s partner dating lots of other people is often pretty low, assuming that the rest of the relationship is healthy. Obviously, people are often sad if their partners are neglecting them for other people, or won’t stick to their agreements, or want a less committed relationship than they want, or similar. But that’s not what I’m talking about here. I’m talking about sadness caused solely by your partner dating lots of people when you aren’t dating very many at all. And I do think that’s less common than a lot of monogamous people think. 

One reason this is true is that the number of people you date isn’t just related to how attractive you are: it’s also related to your extroversion and your pickiness.

Some people thrive on having lots of relationships: there’s nothing they love more than having a brunch date with Sally Saturday morning, grocery shopping followed by a long walk with Alex Saturday afternoon, and going out dancing with Josh Saturday evening– and then repeating it all on Sunday. For other people, this sounds like a newly discovered tenth circle of Hell.

Obviously, that second group of people are going to have way fewer partners.

I called this “extroversion”, but it’s not just about extroversion. It’s about how you choose to spend your time. Some people prioritize having lots of romantic partners and sex. Other people prioritize writing their novel, or having deep and rich platonic friendships, or maintaining open-source projects, or climbing the corporate ladder, or binge-watching Netflix. If you’re into writing novels, and your partner is into going out on lots of dates, you’re probably not going to be sad that you have fewer boyfriends than your partner does. You’re going to be like “great! He’s busy and not bugging me, so I can really dig into the edits on Chapter Three.”

And of course this is particularly an issue for casual sex. Lots of people don’t have much casual sex because they find casual sex unappealing. And many people are not at all jealous about not participating in their partner’s unappetizing and incomprehensible hobby.

Another factor that affects how many people you date is pickiness. I have a friend who, at any given time, has a crush on about half of the women he interacts with. Inevitably, whenever he meets someone new, two days later he’s PMing me to go “so-and-so is pretty.” Naturally, he is dating a rather absurd number of people.

Now, I don’t mean to insult my friend’s girlfriends, all of whom are lovely people the appeal of whom I entirely understand. I’m not saying “some of the people your slutty partner dates will be ugly as fuck” (although this is sometimes true). But if you are only interested in shy, petite, multilingual girls who enjoy tabletop roleplaying, love children, and never raise their voices, then you will be totally uninterested in your metamours who are tall, loud, outgoing, monolingual, and aggressively childfree and who think dice only come in six-sided. In my experience, it does not hurt nearly as much for your partner to date lots of people if all the people they’re dating are unappealing.

Moreover, there’s a certain fairness to it. You are aware that if you liked as many people as your partner does, you would be able to date as many people as they do. Your partner dates lots of people because they like lots of people; you don’t because you don’t.

In general, extroversion and pickiness matter more than attractiveness when explaining why one person is dating more people than their primary partner is. In general, with some exceptions for people with unusual tastes, people tend to date people who are about as attractive as they are. (And quite often if your primary is more conventionally attractive than you are but is super into you due to your unusual traits, you will be pleased to have scored such an attractive person and accepting of their increased romantic success.) So most of the difference within relationships is about extroversion and pickiness. 

I am not saying that there’s no such thing as jealousy in poly relationships– there is– nor am I saying that no poly person is ever insecure, neglected, or envious. But quite often when one person dates many more people than their partner does, it is because that person wants to date more people than their other partner does. The person with fewer partners might need more alone time, be putting energy into something other than dating, or simply have a hard time meeting people they’re interested in– and that means they’re dating exactly the number of people they actually want to date. 

Polyamory Survey: The Results, Part One

12 Tuesday Nov 2019

Posted by ozymandias in feminism, sex positivity, survey

≈ 9 Comments

Tags

polyamory

I collected 498 responses to my polyamory survey. Of these, 19 (3.8%) were deleted for being monogamous, leaving me with 479 respondents. The survey was promoted primarily on my blog, Thing of Things, and Slate Star Codex. For this reason, it is primarily representative of the rationalist community. 81% of respondents identified as rationalists.

Limitations

Due to a miscommunication with Scott Alexander, the polyamory survey as posted on Slate Star Codex failed to clarify that single people who would be nonmonogamous if they were dating anyone should take the survey. This may lead to underrepresentation of single respondents.

Mid-survey, I added some clarifications, which included defining “assigned gender at birth” and informing people who don’t know what a rationalist is

At least one person failed to follow instructions and included platonic primary partners; I do not expect the number of people who both have platonic primary partners and are bad at following directions to be high enough to distort the data. While I attempted to create categories that would encompass many different ways of doing polyamory, some forms may not be accommodated; for example, one participant complained that he slept with dozens of new people every year but, as he does not have many relationships, was recorded in the survey as having no partners. I do not expect people this unusual to distort the results much.

Several people refused to take the survey because they felt uncomfortable classifying their gender, sexual orientation, or romantic orientation within the boxes given. This survey may underrepresent queer people with unusual genders or orientations. Some participants felt that “transgender” is a term which only includes binary-gendered people; thus, nonbinary people may either have been underrepresented or incorrectly included as cisgender.

The definition of “sex” was confusing to several respondents. In particular, some respondents included cybersex as sex, while some did not. Depending on whether you consider cybersex to be sex, my survey may either undercount or overcount how much sex people are having.

Do Cis Straight Poly People Exist?

Before we can determine whether polyamory works well for cisgender heterosexual people, it is first necessary to determine whether cis straight poly people exist at all.

The answer appears to be “yes”. The gender, sexual orientation, and romantic orientation breakdown of respondents is as follows:

7.1% asexual
42.7% bisexual
42.9% heterosexual
7.3% homosexual

1.5% aromantic*
45.5% biromantic
44.7% heteroromantic
8.4% homoromantic

54.4% cisgender male
24.9% cisgender female
7.5% transgender person assigned female at birth
13.2% transgender person assigned male at birth

(There was a high overlap between “heteroromantic” and “heterosexual”, “biromantic” and “bisexual”, etc.)

However, I live in Berkeley, so I am aware that cisgender straight poly people often do things that many monogamous people would not consider to be very heterosexual or cisgender. For this reason, I included two additional questions to test whether someone is paradigmatically cisgender and heterosexual.

I asked heterosexual people whether they had had sex with a person of the same gender, or with any transgender person. (After some consideration, I chose to include all transgender people, on the grounds that cis people seem to consider sex with any of us to be kinda gay.) I clarified that “sex” includes any activity two or more people are doing, at the same time, which is primarily intended to cause sexual arousal or orgasm in one or more participants, and that it still counts if a person of your preferred gender was also involved, you didn’t touch their genitals, one or both of you didn’t get naked, it was BDSM, it was exclusively over the Internet, etc. 40.5% of heterosexual respondents have had sex with a person of the same gender, or with any transgender person.

I asked cisgender people whether they have taken any steps conventionally considered to be part of a gender transition process, such as taking cross-sex hormones; asking people to refer to them with different pronouns or a name not associated with their assigned gender; binding, tucking, or wearing clothing or makeup conventionally associated with the other primary gender on a regular basis; or deliberately altering their presentation to cause people to read them as the gender they weren’t assigned at birth. 13.6% of cisgender respondents have taken a step conventionally considered to be part of a gender transition process.

It is now possible to calculate what percentage of poly people are paradigmatically straight and cisgender. 21.5% of poly people in my sample were paradigmatically cis and straight. Rationalists were more likely to be paradigmatically cis and straight than nonrationalists: 36% of rationalists were paradigmatically cis and straight. 33% of cisgender men were paradigmatically cis and straight, while only 8% of cisgender women were paradigmatically cis and straight. This reflects the common polyamorous wisdom that cisgender, heterosexual poly women are very rare.

*I used a narrow definition of aromantic, in which a person is uninterested in having any relationships described as “girlfriend,” “boyfriend,” or “partner”, rather than a broader definition in which one might have partners that one is not romantically attracted to.

Are Poly People Cucks?

Many people accuse polyamorous people, particularly men, of being cucks: that is, they are sexually aroused by the idea of their partners having sex with other people. Unaccountably, no one has ever collected data on this claim.

At first blush, this generalization seems accurate: 78.7% of respondents reported that they found the prospect of a partner having sex with someone else arousing, even if only a little bit or only in particular situations. However, only 15.2% of respondents found it arousing in a submissive way, as implied by the word “cuck” (e.g. you are aroused by your partner having sex with other people because you find it humiliating). 29.4% found it arousing in a dominant way (e.g. the idea that you might “force” your partner to have sex with someone else). The majority of respondents, 76.8%, found it arousing in a non-kinky fashion (e.g. because it is hot when your partner has orgasms).

Further, this arousal is not a significant driver of people’s interest in polyamory: only 4.8% of respondents reported that this was a major reason for them to be poly.

I will now look at cisgender male respondents specifically, as this is a subject of particular interest. 79.3% of cisgender men found the prospect of a partner having sex with someone else arousing; 15.7% were aroused in a submissive way, 35.7% in a dominant way, and 73.4% in a non-kinky way. 7.2% said that this was a major reason for them to be polyamorous. Cisgender men appear to have approximately the same pattern as everyone else, although they are perhaps slightly more likely to be interested in a dominant fashion and less likely to be interested in a nonkinky fashion; cis men may also be more likely to have this as a primary reason for them to be poly.

Therefore, I have concluded that, while poly men are typically aroused by their partners having sex with other people, poly men are not in fact cucks, nor is this a major reason for them to be poly. I am unclear on whether it is a good idea to raise awareness of these results, however. If you must humiliate someone for their partner having sex with other people, you should at least humiliate the people who get off on it.

Tune in next post for answers to a variety of other exciting questions such as:

  • Are poly people satisfied in their relationships?
  • How many people are poly people dating?
  • Are poly cis men lonelier than poly trans people or poly cis women?
  • How much sex are poly people having really?
  • Are poly people more attracted to their primaries or their secondaries?
  • And more!

Polyamory Survey

21 Monday Oct 2019

Posted by ozymandias in survey

≈ 10 Comments

Tags

ozy blog post, polyamory

I have some questions about polyamory I’d like to have answered! Click here for invasive questions about your relationship satisfaction, sexual interests, and sad feelings. You will be rewarded with animal and plant pictures.

This survey is for non-monogamous people only. That means that, if you wanted to, you and/or your partner(s) could date and/or have sex with more than one person, without violating the rules of your relationship. If you do not have any partners but expect that you would be nonmonogamous if you did, you are nonmonogamous. If you and your partner are both dating only each other, but could date other people if you chose, you are nonmonogamous.

If you are monogamous and take this survey you will not get to answer any questions. You will merely be redirected to the following image of a sad puppy:

 

Lazy Poly

18 Tuesday Dec 2018

Posted by ozymandias in sex positivity

≈ 8 Comments

Tags

ozy blog post, polyamory

[All anecdotes related in this post are composites, and minor details have been changed to protect others’ privacy.]

Hi, I’m Ozy, and I’m a lazy poly person.

Mostly, this is because I’ve had a kid. It turns out babies are kind of time-consuming.

Not only do I have a baby, but all of my secondary partners who live in the same city as me have young children. Scheduling sex around nap times is hard. Scheduling sex around two nap times is impossible.

And, to be honest, when I get some time to myself, the last thing I want to do is go on a date. Mostly, I want to take a nap or write a blog post or spend time with my husband, whom I love, when our interactions will not be interrupted by a baby who totally understands how this whole conversation thing works and wants to make everyone know that his feeling about Donald Trump’s legal woes is “gooo! oooga!”

So what this means is that in the past seven months my extramarital romantic life has consisted of the following:

  • Having crushes on people who are unavailable due to being asexual, straight, gay, Catholic, in another country, not interested in me, or most often some combination of the above
  • Messaging my partners on Discord
  • Cuddling my partners in a tired fashion while our children play with each other, and then interrupting the cuddles because Viktor tried to poke the other child in the eye
  • Like one instance of actual sex

Now, if you look at those observations, you might ask “Ozy, why are you bothering to be poly at all? If you’re not going to actually have sex with anyone outside your primary relationship, you might as well just be monogamous.”

And, you know, I’m not the only lazy poly person in the world. Some people work sixty-hour-a-week jobs. Some people have depression or anxiety or another mental illness. Some people spend all their time doing activism or writing books or maintaining a network of intense platonic relationships. Some people just really, really don’t want to put on real pants. (Of course, none of those situations are incompatible with active polyamory, but many people in those situations might end up being Lazy Poly.) Why are any of us bothering to be poly when it seems like we could get identical results just from being monogamous?

The most obvious reason, of course, is that we might be non-lazy poly people sometime in the future. Call me an optimist, but I hope that five years from now I may be able to go on an entire child-free date, perhaps even wearing a shirt without spitup on it at the time. However, there are many people who fully intend to have sixty-hour-a-week jobs or writing careers or an aversion to real pants for the foreseeable future. Why would they stay poly?

The answer is that polyamory can be loadbearing even if you don’t often date outside your relationship.

The amount of extramarital sex and romance a lazy poly person gets up to, although it is objectively not very much, is still enough to cause problems in a monogamous relationship. From a poly perspective, it’s “you only had sex with other people three times this year”; from a monogamous perspective, it’s “YOU HAD SEX WITH OTHER PEOPLE THREE TIMES THIS YEAR?!”

I think some people might think “if you’ve only had sex outside your relationship three times this year, why would it be hard to turn that into zero times?” But that’s not how people’s sexual and romantic interests actually work. For example, I know a polyamorous person who kinks on threesomes. Threesomes being an enormous pain in the butt to arrange, they only have threesomes two or three times a year. But “your kink is an enormous pain in the butt and I only want to do it once every four to six months” is a reasonable request in a way that “you should never indulge your kink ever again” really, really isn’t. If you kink on public sex, group sex, your partner having sex with other people, or casual sex, you might find yourself in a similar situation. 

I’ve met another poly person who barely ever interacts with anyone they’re in theory dating. But they get a lot of emotional comfort from knowing that there exist people who in theory would like to date them if they ever bothered to leave the house long enough to do so. They would feel very unloved and unattractive if no one wanted to date them, but once they know that someone does, they don’t feel that much of a drive to actually go out on dates with them. (Of course, you shouldn’t mislead people into thinking that dating you involves actually interacting with you if it doesn’t.)

Equally commonly, I think there are situations where the fact of being poly itself is loadbearing. For example, I’ve known several poly people who found it very comforting that their partner could, in theory, go have sex with other people. If they were in a monogamous relationship, they would feel guilty about saying ‘no’ to sex when they didn’t want sex, because they would be condemning their partner to sexual frustration. On the other hand, if you’re poly, you don’t have to worry about that as much; if your partner doesn’t have sex with other people, all that means is that they weren’t that sexually dissatisfied after all.

Many poly people I know, including myself, are also frustrated by the rules of monogamy. When I was monogamous, I regularly found myself accidentally upsetting my partners by doing something I didn’t know was against the rules. Asking about what was against the rules also appeared to be against the rules; I was supposed to just know. (To be fair to my younger self, the rules were unnecessarily confusing: for example, I was too autistic to realize that the reason that my boyfriends were fine with hearing about my female crushes was that they viewed my female crushes as nonthreatening sexy things which primarily existed for their sexual fantasies.)

Now that I’m polyamorous, I don’t have to worry about whether cowriting problematic porn with someone is cheating, or whether going to a museum with someone I have a crush on who isn’t into me is cheating, or whether flirting with someone cute without any intentions of hooking up is cheating, or the entire concept of emotional affairs. It’s a tremendous load off my mind.

Also common, I think, is a certain displeasure in having arbitrary rules set about one’s behavior and that of one’s partners. I’m sort of low-key a relationship anarchist. I don’t like the person I am when I try to control people I’m dating so that they don’t do anything that scares me or makes me jealous or upset. I like the person I am when I take responsibility for my own feelings and trust my partners to take my needs and boundaries into account without creating a bunch of rules to regulate their behavior. (I don’t mean, of course, that that is the only way a person can have a healthy relationship; it is what works for me.)

Of course, some monogamous people have similar beliefs, and many poly people don’t. But for me personally, cultivating that sort of trust and responsibility means not creating a rule against my partners having sex with other people, even if I expect (for example) that my coparent will share the parenting equally with me and thus will not have a lot of time to go on dates. While the extramarital sex might not be particularly important, trusting my partner enough to let him have extramarital sex is.

Polyamory Is Like Everything Else, Part One of ∞

11 Wednesday Jul 2018

Posted by ozymandias in sex positivity

≈ 33 Comments

Tags

ozy blog post, polyamory

I recently had an experience which I think encapsulates some of the things I mean when I talk about polyamory.

Recently, I had to speak on a panel for my job. I have social anxiety and, while public speaking might not actually be more feared than death, it is certainly terrifying. I really needed my husband’s support. Unfortunately, my husband’s parents were in town to visit our infant, and he wanted to spend time with them.

Here’s what I don’t get to say: “I’m the primary. I’m most important. You made a commitment to me. I have my first panel ever and I need to do a good job for the sake of my career, plus it’s going to drain all my ability to cope and I need you so I don’t end up melting down in the bathroom. You’re not allowed to sacrifice my legitimate needs for the sake of some ‘desire’ to have ‘fun’ with your ‘parents.'”

Instead, we compromised. My husband was very busy that weekend. His parents got to see less of him than they would have wanted. And while the panel went fine, I had a really awful meltdown the day before. It was a shitty situation and it made everyone unhappy– and I don’t get to fix it by saying “I’m your spouse, so only my needs matter.”

Here’s what I also don’t get to say: “I don’t consent to have a relationship with your parents. It’s okay if you want to have a relationship with them, I guess (although as your spouse I should really be allowed to veto your parents). But I don’t ever want to have to talk to them or be nice to them and you should arrange the visits so that I don’t have to see them.”

Of course, I don’t have to be friends with my husband’s parents. If it stresses me out to interact with them, I’m allowed to be busy the entire time they’re in town (even if “busy” means “in the middle of the Broken Earth series”). And if my husband has a toxic relationship with his parents, or his parents are mean to their grandkid, or if one of his parents deliberately ran over my cat, I could say “hey, maybe you should consider cutting these toxic child-hating cat murderers off.”

(None of those are true, by the way, my husband’s parents are lovely people and very kind to both children and animals.)

But there are very very few people you can date who are not embedded in some sort of social fabric. If it’s very important to you, you can only date asocial, friendless orphans; that’s fine, you’re allowed to have dealbreakers. If you’re dating a more ordinary sort of person, sometimes you will find yourself having to be civil to and make small talk with people you (for understandable reasons) have no particular emotional investment in, because someone you love has an emotional investment in them. And sometimes you will find yourself having to give up things– sometimes things you really need– in order to fulfill the needs of people you don’t particularly care about, because someone you love cares about them. That’s life.

Book Post for November, Nonfiction Books

06 Wednesday Dec 2017

Posted by ozymandias in book post

≈ 27 Comments

Tags

diets cw, follow ozymandias271 for more sad gays, neurodivergence, polyamory, science side of tumblr, sex positivity

Game Changer: A Memoir of Disruptive Love: A memoir by Franklin Veaux, author of More than Two, about his marriage to an obligate monogamous person while being obligate poly. If you are like “wow, that seems like an incredibly horrible idea,” you are far more sensible than anyone in this book, who universally seem to be under the impression that this situation can be managed by coming up with a bunch of rules about Franklin’s dates with other people. (No “I love you”s! No sleeping in their bed! His wife for years gives him, a grown man, a curfew.) Naturally this entire situation is very painful for Franklin, his wife, and all of Franklin’s other partners. Somehow this relationship, which in any sensible world would have ended after the third date, managed to stay together for eighteen years. Eighteen years! That is definitely an impressive feat of endurance if nothing else.

Trauma Stewardship: An Everyday Guide To Caring for Self While Caring for Others: I really wanted to like this book. I think the concept of “trauma stewardship” is really interesting and important: the author reframes trauma exposure responses (the mental health consequences often faced by people who help others– whether people or animals– cope with highly traumatic situations) as trauma stewardship, the entire conversation about how we come to do the work, how we’re affected by it, and how we make sense of it. I think it’s a really interesting move to understand helpers’ relationship to trauma as stewardship, as taking a valuable thing which has been entrusted to us and which we have responsibility for but which ultimately does not belong to us. Unfortunately, I have a limited tolerance for woo, and after the sixth or seventh comment about the wisdom of Native Americans I checked out. So it did not really live up to its potential from my perspective.

The Myth of Sex Addiction: I really, really wanted to like this book. And to be fair some of its arguments are effective. Probably the most effective argument in the book is a case study of a college student and evangelical Christian who identified as a sex addict because he felt like he couldn’t control his masturbation no matter what he did and it was causing him serious distress. He masturbated twice a month. That, I think, is the best argument I’ve ever heard that some cases of sex addiction are best treated with sex positivity and destigmatization, not attempting to get the patient to reduce their masturbation to zero times a month.

I also find it plausible that the diagnosis of sex addiction is, as it were, gynecentric. That is, “sex addiction” doesn’t just pathologize unusual but harmless behavior such as BDSM; it pathologizes behavior that, for whatever cultural or biological reason, is far more common in men than in women (a desire for anonymous sex, enjoying sex outside of a relationship context, seeing sex workers, daily masturbation to pornography).

Unfortunately, The Myth of Sex Addiction itself has an addiction to gee-whiz clickbait-headline thirty-undergraduates-from-an-Intro-Psych-class this-is-never-going-to-replicate psychology studies. It tells us that these studies are Just How Men Are,  because of Biology and Evolution, without ever doing any sort of cross-cultural analysis or acknowledging that its sample is WEIRD. It repeatedly cites the SurveyFail guy, who years later has still not managed to work out that women don’t jerk off to fade-to-black romance novels.

The Myth of Sex Addiction very confidently claims that women don’t have fetishes. I think this is a bizarrely confident claim to make after you’ve spent five pages mustering the evidence that women are less likely to masturbate and to approve of porn and non-PIV sex. Maybe they do have fetishes and they just have no idea? Also, the definition of fetish is actually androcentric. My research suggests that men don’t have fetishes, because while it is very common for women to dream of being ravished by a cowboy, almost no men dream of being ravished by a cowgirl. In fact, the entire genre of cowgirl-ravishment books appears to be aimed at lesbians.

As always when I read books about mental illness that don’t come from a social-model perspective, I think the social model would make this guy’s life so much easier. Yes, it is possible for the same mental trait to be an illness if it causes you distress or difficulty functioning, and a quirk if it doesn’t. The fact that I don’t experience any negative consequences from my hypersexuality doesn’t mean anything one way or the other about whether it’s a mental illness; it just means that my environment accommodates me.

Utopia for Realists: I am honestly pretty surprised by this book, because I didn’t expect anyone to be so slavish in following Silicon Valley political orthodoxy. Guaranteed basic income, shorter work weeks, randomistas in foreign aid, open borders… it honestly surprised me that there wasn’t a chapter on fixing the housing crisis by building more houses. Anyway, it was all pretty boring for me, because I live here and am already familiar with the arguments for and against a guaranteed basic income and open borders, but if you are curious what Your New Tech Overlords think about things there are really far worse books you can read.

The Joy of Gay Sex: A evocation of gay male life circa 2009 cleverly disguised as a sex advice book. The sex advice itself is mostly not very interesting, assuming you have some idea of the mechanics of anal sex. The little essays about HIV, chosen families, monogamy, and all the other details of gay life build up a rich tapestry that really helps you intuitively understand what it’s like to be a (certain kind of) gay man. The sections on the Internet were particularly interesting to me, because they were written pre-Grindr; the gay Internet as described in the book is both recognizable and distinctly less convenient than the present Internet. My one complaint is the underrepresentation of the gay and bisexual men of my acquaintance (where are the furries? where are the anime nerds?) but I suppose that they don’t really hang out at gay bars so perhaps the author never had a chance to meet them.

Crazy Like Us: The Globalization of the American Psyche: I am leery of giving a positive review of this book, because it is written by a journalist, and it is very possible the author is misunderstanding all the research because he doesn’t have a background in the field. Perhaps Scott Alexander or Sarah Constantin or someone could fact-check it for me.

Until it is fact-checked by someone I trust on psychiatry, my tentative opinion is that this book is very plausible. Essentially, the thesis is that certain things (trauma, mental distress, psychosis) are universal, but we tend to express symptoms of those things depending on what’s floating in the cultural “symptom pool.” A psychotic person who grows up in America will think the CIA is mind-controlling them; a psychotic person who grows up in a developing country will think demons are talking to them. A person in severe emotional distress in the United States may be anorexic or self-harm; a person in severe emotional distress in Indonesia may commit a mass assault. (Caveats: it does occasionally happen that people pick up symptoms that aren’t usual for their culture; anorexia is probably not caused by the “thin ideal”, and in fact one of the strongest pieces of evidence for anorexia as a culture-bound syndrome is the existence of societies with a thin ideal and very very low rate of anorexia.) When a syndrome only exists in another culture, it is called a “culture-bound syndrome.” When a syndrome only exists in the Anglosphere, it is called “how people work.” Because the DSM is seen as authoritative, we export our local symptom pool around the world.

I am personally interested in the prospect of cultivating the symptom pool to reduce distress in mentally ill people. Through careful messaging, could we remove harmful symptoms like anorexia, somatization which results in chronic pain, and running amok and replace them with less harmful expressions of distress like snapping a rubber band against your wrist or cutting off your hair? I imagine how much future schizophrenics could be helped by a hundred million dollars directed towards PSAs about people who have a positive relationship with their voices and representation of people with nice voices in popular culture. Sadly, the book does not explore this concept.

The last chapter was annoying. While it established that pharmaceutical companies increased the rate of antidepressant prescription in Japan by raising awareness of depression, it did not provide any evidence that this actually increased the rate of emotional distress in Japan. Would one assume from the Viagra marketing campaign that before Viagra no one had ever had erectile dysfunction?

Evolution’s Rainbow: Diversity, Gender, and Sexuality in Nature and People: I agree with the main thesis of this book: I think that sexism, homophobia, and other oppression-related cognitive biases affect how we interpret biological data and lead to inaccurate conclusions. I appreciated Joan Roughgarden pointing out that commonly used terms like “female mimic” and “cuckoldry” can lead scientists to assume one explanation has to be true (that the animal is pretending to be female, that the female is passing off offspring from an extra-pair copulation as the male’s) when they haven’t collected the data to justify the assumption.

Some of her criticisms seem quite valid to me. For example, it does seem implausible that if humans can tell apart with the naked eye females and female mimic males of a species with sharp eyesight, then the male (who has an evolutionary reason to be good at telling these things apart) does not. Perhaps the female mimic male assists the male somehow: helping him defend his territory or allowing him to signal that he won’t attack the female. It also seems implausible that male seabirds never notice extra-pair copulations occurring in public, and thus we should look for alternate explanations in which the female having extra-pair copulations improves the male’s reproductive success somehow. Maybe extra-pair copulations reduce the risk of another male committing infanticide if the female’s partner dies.

However, I think Roughgarden has a bad habit of presenting her interpretations as settled science, when in reality they’re just interpretations. We would have to do a lot more detailed ecological work to decide whether her conclusions are accurate. And every time she says “this interpretation has an unfortunate oppressive implication” as an argument against a particular interpretation of the data, I want to cringe. That is not what science is supposed to do. You can’t decide the truth by saying what’s most convenient to your ideology.

Roughgarden writes mostly about the potential adaptive benefits of genetic diversity in humans, which makes me really curious about her opinions about the adaptive benefits of neurodiversity in humans. I agree with her hypothesis that many genetic impairments would not be as common as they are if the genes didn’t pose some fitness benefit, the way that people who are heterozygous for sickle-cell anemia genes are protected against malaria. However, she once again fails to consider alternate hypotheses. Many genetic impairments, for example, are very common in Ashkenazi Jews, who have a relatively small effective population size and thus are particularly susceptible to genetic drift. There is no reason to suppose that those impairments have an adaptive benefit.

[this review talks about rape]

Unscrewed: Women, Sex, Power, and How to Stop Letting the System Screw Us All: Probably my least favorite of Jaclyn Friedman’s books so far. I mean, anticapitalism aside, she’s right about everything. Reproductive justice does need to include not just the right to contraception and abortion but the right to start a family, have adequate perinatal care, and not be shackled to the bed while giving birth. Sex work stigma does harm women who aren’t sex workers and combating it is a vital part of sex-positive activism. The de facto legalization of rape of Native American women on reservations is horrifying. While level of vaginal arousal is completely uncorrelated with level of self-reported arousal, reporting this as “women don’t know what they want, are all secretly bisexuals who like fucking bonobos” both is sexist and misrepresents the science. While there are personal decisions that affect sex-negative cisheteropatriarcy, like volunteering for a rape crisis center or choosing not to be an asshole to people whose sex lives you disapprove of, whether or not you flash their boobs and say “wooooo!” is not one of them, either on a “this is empowering!” or a “this is objectifying!” level.

I continue to highly recommend Yes Means Yes, and maybe if any of those statements is surprising to you consider checking out Unscrewed.

I was very annoyed at the chapter on masculinity. Jaclyn Friedman is, in fact, a decent person who comes to the correct conclusion that male gender norms both hurt men and cause men to hurt others and that both aspects should be recognized. But goddamn does she feel like she needs to signal that she is still a Woke Feminist who engages in Fashionable Misandry. Is it really necessary to make fun of men who internalize oppositionally sexist norms to the point that they can’t buy female-branded products? Do you have to put in that paragraph about how the harm male gender roles cause to women ought to be enough to get men to be feminists, but okay if we have to we can talk about the harm it causes to men? Notably, Friedman does not do that in the chapter on how sex work stigma hurts non-sex-workers, which I can’t help but figure is related to the fact that Friedman is a woman and is not a sex worker.

[the next book is about dieting]

Health at Every Size: The Surprising Truth About Your Weight: I realize that no one knows why weight set points are going up, but I wish there had been more discussion of various hypotheses. Instead, the author basically goes with “dieting causes weight set points to rise!”, which is one plausible hypothesis but also seems really convenient for the book about how you should stop dieting.

The advice for practicing Health at Every Size is as follows:

  1. Stop hating yourself and your body. Find supportive people who won’t talk about how you need to lose weight. Practice reframing your negative thoughts about your body, food, and exercise.
  2. Eat delicious food. Pay attention when you eat. Eat when hungry; stop when full. If you find yourself eating to manage an emotion, use a different self-care technique while practicing self-compassion (it is perfectly natural to use food to manage your emotions if you don’t have another way to do so).
  3. Integrate movement into your daily life. Eat a variety of food, mostly plants, almost all unprocessed food, 100% food you enjoy. Get enough sleep. Manage your stress.
  4. If you have a hard time with the food advice in #3: learn to cook, check out community-supported agriculture programs, eat in a peaceful and loving environment, slow down, and pay attention to presentation.

Monogamous People Are Stupidly Oversensitive

21 Saturday Jan 2017

Posted by ozymandias in sex positivity

≈ 40 Comments

Tags

ozy blog post, polyamory

I don’t want to say that there are literally zero polyamorous people who go around saying that polyamory is better than monogamy. The world is wide and full of many things, and God knows that people on the Internet can be blithering idiots on any topic.

However, I have literally never met such a person in my life, and yet I encounter monogamous people talking about how terrible such people are at least twice a month. It’s okay, guys! You’ve won! The enemy has been routed! You can stop discoursing now! Literally no one is arguing with you!

But then a funny thing happens when you try to get people to provide links to examples of this alleged ‘polyamory is better than monogamy’ claims. It turns out that they are actually instances of “a person saying that they are happier being poly than they were being monogamous.”

Or “a person saying that they had some problems becoming poly, but now they’re happily poly, and here’s how they did it.”

Or “a poly person being proud to be poly, in spite of the stigma they face from the rest of the world.”

Or “a silly Tumblr post about how we should resolve love triangles with polyamory.”

Or “poly people existing and being happy in public at all.”

It seems that growing up in a culture where monogamy is validated and accepted tends to leave a lot of monogamous people with a little bit of a thin skin.

Look, I get that having a relationship style you don’t share with the rest of your friends can be alienating. It can be harder to find partners. People might assume your relationship style is something that it really isn’t. People write fluffy romantic things that you don’t empathize with because they hinge on a different relationship style than yours. It sucks! I can empathize!

The reason I can empathize is that the places that are like this for me include literally the entire rest of the world.

Except that, while poly people who go around saying polyamory is better are mostly nonexistent, monogamous people who go around saying monogamy is better are not. They really, really are not. Feel free to peruse Polyamory in the News’s Critics of Poly tag if you don’t believe me. Or look at the comments of any news article about polyamory. Or come and meet my dad, who sent me a letter saying I was going to get AIDS before disowning me.

I wonder how many monogamous people asked a large and scary-looking friend to keep an eye on their family at their wedding, because they were afraid their family would make a scene about them being monogamous. Few?

I do not think there is anything wrong with monogamy. It’s not for me, but then neither are polo shirts, death metal, or ice dancing. I feel as little antipathy towards monogamous people as I do towards people wearing polo shirts, death metal fans, or ice dancers. But someone saying “I’m so happy now that I wear polo shirts all the time!” is not criticizing me as a T-shirt wearer. Someone talking about how they used to not be into death metal and now they are and here’s how is not criticizing me as a pop fan. The existence of happy ice dancers does not somehow mean I have to engage in ice dancing. The mere existence of happy people who do not share your preferences should not make you feel bad about your preferences. The fact that not everyone goes about constantly affirming how wonderful your life choices are does not mean you are being mistreated. Stop it.

On Polyamory Advice

29 Thursday Dec 2016

Posted by ozymandias in sex positivity

≈ 6 Comments

Tags

ozy blog post, polyamory

Part of the problem with polyamory advice is that it usually comes from people who give advice.

This creates two distortions. First, many people who dislike commonly given polyamory advice would prefer something along the lines of “whatever works for you and your partners is great.” The problem is that this is really terrible advice.

As a comparison, consider a certain genre of sex-positive advice columns. These advice columns will answer every question with “talk to your partners! People are diverse, so you should figure out what works for you.” How do you eat someone out? “Talk to your partners! People are diverse, so you should figure out what works for you.” How do you dominate someone? “Talk to your partners! People are diverse, so you should figure out what works for you.” You like sex when you have it, but you’re rarely in the mood, so it’s easy to go weeks or months without having sex? “Talk to your partners! People are diverse, so you should figure out what works for you.” The sex is just kind of… meh? “Talk to your partners! People are diverse, so you should figure out what works for you.”

Of course, people are diverse, you should talk to your partners, and it’s a good idea to figure out what works for you. But this is also totally useless advice. If I knew what worked for me and my partners, I wouldn’t be writing to an advice column. And it’s not like there are literally zero generalities. You can say “in general, it’s a good idea to warm up your partner a bit before you approach her clit”. You can say “a lot of people find that making your partner call you ‘sir’ or ‘ma’am’ puts them in a good headspace.” You can say “that’s called responsive desire, it’s very common among people of all genders, and if you want to have sex more you can plan to spend some time kissing and cuddling on a regular basis and you may find that you’re in the mood for sex.” You can say “why don’t you try some different things that seem interesting? Even if most of them turn out to be silly or boring, adding a couple new things to your repertoire can stave off boredom.” Even though that isn’t going to work for everyone, it is sure as hell going to work for more people than “figure out what works for you!” without any guidance about how you do this.

Similarly, there are certain generalities among people in relationships. You should be familiar with your partner as a person, ranging from their favorite books to their problems to their deeply held values. You should try to be thankful about nice things your partner has done for you and to admire their good qualities. You should listen when they want to tell you something, even if you are a little busy. You should compromise. You should take a break when you feel like screaming at your partner.

Of course, these don’t apply to every relationship. There are people who are in happy marriages that are primarily an economic exchange and division of chores, where they don’t know much about each other beyond what is necessary to do their respective jobs. There are people who don’t mind being taken for granted. There are people who consider it an important part of respect for each other’s intellectual work that they never interrupt a train of thought with a question. There are people who thrive when their partner does whatever they want without taking their wishes into account. There are people who scream at each other and then have hot sex and feel like their conflict is resolved.

But that said, if I know that someone is unhappy in their relationship, and they don’t know how to fix it, and I know that they resolve all their conflicts by screaming at each other, I am going to suggest “why don’t you try resolving your conflicts through calm discussion and not screaming?” And I think that is much more likely to work than “whatever works for you and your partners is fine!”

I think this generalizes to a lot of the controversial polyamory advice as well. Is there somewhere out there a triad with an ecstatically happy bisexual woman partner who isn’t allowed to have sex with people outside the triad, is officially secondary, is required to love both of her partners equally, is an unpaid nanny/maid, and isn’t allowed to tell anyone whom she’s dating because they’re not out as poly? Probably! But I am not going to endorse this as a general practice.

Second, most people are reasonable, sensible people, but some people are ridiculous and terrible. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people who write to advice columns are either ridiculous terrible people or reasonable sensible people who have somehow managed to get stuck in a relationship with ridiculous terrible people, because the reasonable sensible people generally have good relationships and therefore have no need to write to advice columns.

(yr humble blogger queers the ridiculous terrible/reasonable sensible binary)

So someone writes to the advice column and says “I won’t let my husband’s girlfriend kiss him except on the cheek or through a dental dam because she has oral herpes. She’s upset about this. How do I get her to see that this is necessary to prevent me from becoming a disgusting diseased herpetic?” And the advice columnist says “Jesus fucking christ, cut that shit out, you are ridiculous and terrible and also really bad at risk analysis.”

And then some reasonable sensible people read this and say “But I am immunosuppressed! I’m lucky enough not to have herpes, but if I catch it it would be really bad! It makes sense that my partners should have to take lots of precautions to avoid transmitting herpes to me.”

And a member of Team Do What Works For You is like “people should do whatever they want as long as it works for them and their partners! There is nothing wrong with making your metamour only kiss your husband through plastic wrap!”

My position here is that:

(1) We are, of course, going to follow the John Stuart Mill rules about people who are hurting themselves– one may argue with, attempt to persuade, or entreat a person who is making a poor decision, but one may not force them to do the thing you want or visit any sort of evil upon them for not doing so.
(2) We are not going to get more liberal than John Stuart Mill and assume that tolerance requires that no one ever think you’re making a bad choice.
(3) Some people have good reasons for making their metamours kiss their partners through plastic wrap.
(4) For the vast majority of people, this is a horrible idea and your relationships would be a lot better if you instead learned how to do reasonable STI risk assessment.
(5) The majority of people would not force their partners to kiss their partners through plastic wrap, it would never occur to them to do so, and find the whole idea vaguely horrifying.

The problem of ridiculous terrible people comes up particularly with the cluster exemplified by vetoes, rules, relationship contracts, and hierarchy. Ridiculous terrible people can get up to all kinds of ridiculous and terrible shit with vetoes, rules, relationship contracts, and hierarchy. As an example, in the book More Than Two, a man vetoes his wife’s relationship, refusing to even allow her to talk to him again to say goodbye, because he makes her too happy (?!) and this makes him feel jealous (?!?!).

If I were reading a bunch of letters from similarly ridiculous terrible people or their partners, I would probably be pretty down on veto too.

But in practice, I don’t think there’s a whole lot of difference between Reasonable Sensible People Polyamory With Rules and Reasonable Sensible People Polyamory Without Rules. My husband does not have a veto over whom I date, but he does get to have opinions. Naturally, I respect my husband’s judgment about other people, so I will listen to him to see if he’s seen something I’m blinded to by new relationship energy. Naturally, my husband respects my judgment about other people, so he will listen to me about the merits of the person he’s judged distasteful. Naturally, he doesn’t want to make me unhappy, so he will swallow his dislike and be cordial if necessary. Naturally, I don’t want to make him unhappy, so I will avoid squeeing about the awesomeness of people he dislikes. And if in spite of all this we can’t resolve the conflict, we’ll figure out how to manage it while keeping the lines of communication open so we can maybe find a resolution.

I am dating people whose partners do have veto power, and in terms of actual relationship dynamics as opposed to rules, they do the exact same thing. “My husband has veto” translates to “I respect my husband’s judgment and don’t want to do things that make him unhappy, so if he dislikes one of my partners I put a fairly significant amount of weight on that.”

In this case, I feel like a veto is harmless. I personally don’t have one, because I dislike having a power that I would never actually exercise. If I am relying on my husband’s care for my happiness and respect for my judgment, I prefer to say that rather than having it disguised as a rule. Other people find that having a veto gives them a sense of comfort; it feels like a strong signal that their partner has respect for their judgment and cares about their happiness, which is very important in any relationship. Still other people have truly abominable taste and their partners have a veto as a way of recognizing that they must be continually saved from themselves; in this case, the veto is Past You and Present Partners conniving to harsh the buzz of Present You, who is absolutely convinced that this one-eyed three-legged dog is totally worth saving and, see, they only bite a little bit. (In my anecdotal experience, in such situations, their committed secondary partners sometimes also have veto, possibly because Present You is more likely to listen to four people yelling about why you shouldn’t date people with four restraining orders and a domestic violence conviction.) There are probably other decent ways of handling it that I’m not thinking of.

And, indeed, if ridiculous terrible people didn’t have vetoes they would probably be going around being ridiculous and terrible some other way. The core problem with “your partner is making you too happy! I’m upset! I’m vetoing your relationship!” is not the veto. It’s being upset because a person you claim to love is happy.

The actual solution here is probably something like honesty, compassion, forgiveness, courage, growth, fairness, joy, empathy, respect, a sense of humor, a sense of perspective, and all the other virtues. But “be more compassionate! The details will work themselves out” is also kind of terrible advice, because “be more compassionate” is not exactly taskified. So instead we’re stuck with the “don’t have veto” thing.

Do Women Date Assholes? A Study

28 Wednesday Dec 2016

Posted by ozymandias in sex positivity

≈ 96 Comments

Tags

ozy blog post, polyamory, PRECIOUS sexual energy

It is commonly believed that assholes get more dates than people who aren’t assholes. The evidence generally presented for this claim is that disagreeable people tend to have more sexual partners. Of course, that is confounded: perhaps disagreeable people are constantly getting dumped, or perhaps they’re prone to cheating on their partners.

In a polyamorous context, neither of these limitations apply. We can look at the number of romantic partners a person currently has, which is a much better measure of their sexual success. Non-assholes would not be unfairly penalized in the sexual success sweepstakes because no one wanted to break up with them and they aren’t willing to cheat. Conversely, if the result held even in a polyamorous population, it would be definitely true that nice guys finish last.

The primary limitation of this study, of course, is that poly people are weird, and facts about their romantic success may not generalize to monogamous people.

The Methods

There were 440 responses. Of these, 27 were deleted for being monogamous, single but preferring monogamy, or aromantic-asexual, leaving us with 413 responses.

I used several different ways of operationalizing assholery. I used the Ten Item Personality Measure, which measures the Big Five personality traits: openness, conscientiousness, extraversion, agreeableness, and neuroticism. Disagreeableness is the trait of being untrusting, selfish, cold, and uncooperative. In retrospect, while I was using the shortest inventories for each I could find to avoid burdening my respondents, I should have used a more detailed Big Five instrument. The TIPI caused the most complaints among my respondents, and I am afraid that I lost some accuracy in measurement by using such a short instrument.

I also used the Dark Triad of Personality instrument. The Dark Triad of Personality measures three personality traits: machiavellianism, narcissism, and psychopathy. People high in machiavellianism manipulate, exploit, and deceive others. People high in narcissism are proud, egotistical, and unlikely to empathize with others. People high in psychopathy are impulsive, selfish, remorseless, and prone to antisocial behavior.

Finally, I used the Conflict Tactics Scale, which measures abusiveness. While the Conflict Tactics Scale has often been criticized by feminist researchers, it is the easiest method I am aware of to measure abusiveness. The Conflict Tactics Scale was the only one I edited (I changed some wording to make it be poly-inclusive, and I do not think this is likely to have a significant effect on the results). There were many critiques from respondents that the Conflict Tactics Scale did not make it sufficiently clear that questions about hitting your partner and forcing them into sex excluded doing so as part of kink play. While all respondents who complained understood what was meant and excluded kink, it is possible that some respondents did not.

I operationalized “number of romantic partners” two different ways. First, I asked for your number of romantic partners, then I asked for the number of romantic partners you see on at least a weekly basis. The second checks that these effects are not just a product of non-assholes not liking to break up with people.

The Results

By far the largest effect was shown for extroversion. Extroversion is the Big Five personality trait associated with being outgoing, assertive, warm, active, and excitement-seeking. The correlation between extroversion and number of partners had a p-value of 0.000003, which is the sort of p-value one generally associates with physics more than psychology. The correlation between extroversion and regular partners was a measly .0004, perhaps suggesting that extroverts have more partners they see rarely. In both cases, the effect was small to medium, with an r-value of 0.22 for the former and 0.17 for the latter.

Openness to new experience is the Big Five personality trait associated with creativity, imagination, intellect, perceptiveness, aesthetics, and interest in fantasy. Total number of romantic partners was correlated with openness to new experience, with a p-value of 0.006; however, the correlation with regular romantic partners only trended to significance (p-value = .06). In both cases the effect size was small (.13 and .09, respectively).

Machiavellianism was not correlated with number of total romantic partners, but it was negatively correlated with number of regular romantic partners (p-values 0.15 and .02, respectively). The effect size was small (.06, .11, respectively).

Narcissism was correlated with number of total romantic partners significantly and trended towards significance with regards to number of regular romantic partners (p-values .001, .06). In both cases, the effect size was small (.15, .09).

Abusiveness was negatively correlated with number of total romantic partners, but not significantly correlated with number of regular romantic partners (.03, .13). The effect size was small (.10, .07).

No other correlations were significant. (I left out correlations that were trending towards significance if the result for the other kind of partners was not significant.)

The Results, For Straight Men

Most complaints of the form “people want to date assholes” are actually “straight women want to date assholes and thus nice straight men are left in the cold.” Therefore, I analyzed the subgroup straight men.

Extroversion trended towards significance with number of total romantic partners and was significantly correlated with number of regular romantic partners (.08, .03). The effect sizes were small (.15, .18).

Narcissism was significant for both number of total romantic partners and number of regular romantic partners (.03, .01). In both cases, the effect size was small to moderate (.20, .22).

No other correlations were significant. (I left out correlations that were trending towards significance if the result for the other kind of partners was not significant.)

Discussion 

By far the largest effect was extroversion. This seems like a pretty obvious conclusion for me: extroverts typically meet more people and ask more people out, which means that they are likely to get more romantic partners. I think it’s kind of weird that extroversion seems to be less important for straight men than for the general population, given that there is a strong social norm that men ask women out. Perhaps this is an artifact of my odd sample: the social norm might be less strong in an environment where many men are too shy to ask anyone out.

Openness to new experience appears to be an attractive personality trait for people in general (although perhaps not for straight men), although the effect size is fairly small, so I don’t think this is actionable advice. It is possible that this is an artifact of narcissism being correlated with openness.

With the exception of narcissism, all measures of assholery appear to be either uncorrelated with or weakly negatively correlated with romantic success. The p-values are high enough and correlation coefficients low enough for most measures of assholery that I am comfortable saying that assholery is just uncorrelated with romantic success. That is, an attractive asshole has no more and no fewer partners than an attractive nice guy.

That seems to me to explain the anecdotal data: if assholery is uncorrelated with romantic success, then there will be plenty of examples of assholes who are absurdly romantically successful and nice people who are not. People will probably ignore the examples of romantically successful nice people and romantically unsuccessful assholes, because those fit in better with our intuition about how things should work.

It seems very probable to me that assholes and non-assholes tend to date different people. For instance, maybe disagreeable people tend to prefer dating other disagreeable people. And it is commonly observed that some people (of all genders) seem to have broken pickers and consistently date people who treat them like shit.

Narcissism is, interestingly, correlated with a higher level of romantic success. It’s important to note that there is no gender difference here: narcissism is an advantage both for straight men and for the general population. It is possible that narcissists are more prone to consider an edge case (perhaps someone they’ve been dating for a few weeks, or someone they only see once every few months) to be a partner; however, that wouldn’t explain why for straight men there’s a slightly stronger correlation for regular romantic partners than for total romantic partners. Narcissism is correlated with extroversion, which might explain the data; perhaps narcissists put themselves out there more. It is also possible that, for some reason, narcissism is a romantically attractive trait: perhaps narcissists put more effort into their appearance, perhaps they talk up their good traits more, or perhaps people simply find egotism to be charming.

Secondary Is A Really Broad Word

27 Tuesday Dec 2016

Posted by ozymandias in sex positivity

≈ 13 Comments

Tags

ozy blog post, polyamory

There was recently (err, well, a few months ago– I’m a slow writer!) some conversation on Facebook about this old post of Franklin Veaux’s, which had a lot of people saying (paraphrased) “but I’m in a relationship in which I don’t get to meet my partner’s family or I’ll be dumped if I’m a threat to the primary relationship, and I’m fine with it, and I’d actually be somewhat confused about why I would expect any differently!”

I think a lot of the problem with secondary rights discourse is that “secondary” is a very broad word. “Primary” refers (usually) to the most committed relationship(s) a person has; “secondary” refers to every other relationship they have. The term can encompass everything from “casual fuckbuddy I see maybe once every six months” to “my best friend and the love of my life.”

In fact, some people’s secondary relationships can be more committed than other people’s primary relationships! For instance, Alice might have dated her primary for the past six months. Things seem to be going well, but Alice isn’t really in a place for a long-term commitment. They don’t live together, have separate finances, and haven’t met each other’s parents. Conversely, Eve is married and has children with her primary, but she also has a secondary partner she’s been with for decades and plans to be with for the rest of her life. Eve’s secondary is her children’s beloved aunt, and the children would be heartbroken if they broke up. Eve and her secondary partner have cowritten three books and are working on a fourth. On every metric of commitment (prospective longevity of relationship, amount invested in relationship, amount the partners’ lives are entangled), Eve is far more committed to her secondary than Alice is to her primary.

This makes it really fucking hard to generalize about the correct way to treat secondary partners. For instance, it is perfectly reasonable to dump a fuckbuddy if they become inconvenient, but it is tremendously unkind to dump your girlfriend of five years for becoming inconvenient. Keeping the relationship secret from your partner’s family is easy if you never meet them. But if your secondary lives with you, and you just moved in your dad because you don’t want to put him in a nursing home, and your secondary is now required to avoid showing affection to his own boyfriend in his own house, he will probably have some very reasonable complaints about your behavior.

The strongest form of Franklin Veaux’s argument– the one he tends to make when he’s not being rather snarky, as he is in this post– is that it’s about whether the differences between partners are descriptive or prescriptive. A descriptive difference is “I’m in love with my primary and I’m not in love with my secondary and I don’t think I’m ever going to be in love with my secondary.” A prescriptive difference is “I have to be in love with my primary and I am absolutely forbidden from being in love with my secondary.”

Prescriptive differences tend to work poorly for four reasons. First, and most obviously, sometimes they are a product of the “if everyone carefully avoids things that make me feel insecure/possessive/like I’m going to be abandoned, then I will never feel insecure/possessive/like I’m going to be abandoned again!” mindset. Of course, if that mindset works for you, great! There’s no need to suffer unnecessary pain. If your partner not kissing other partners in front of you completely solves your insecurity issues, then that is a reasonable request to make (in a lot of situations, anyway). But for a lot of people if they say “you can’t kiss other people in front of me because then I feel insecure”, the only thing that’s going to happen is that they feel insecure about how pretty their metamour is instead, and then if they refuse to meet their metamours they toss and turn late at night imagining that every one of their metamours looks like Marion Cotillard and sucks cock like Stoya. The long-term solution here is to be less insecure, which is way harder, but also has the virtue of actually working.

Second, a lot of prescriptions about other people’s partners are attempts to control the uncontrollable. It is generally unwise to go about saying “my primary is not allowed to fall in love with other people or have other people fall in love with them!” I mean, this rule is completely compatible with monogamy, because in monogamous relationships one avoids the sort of situations that lead to falling in love. It’s even doable in some non-monogamous situations: for instance, if your primary sees sex workers or has casual one-time hookups. But if your primary is going on dates and having long-term relationships, you can’t be surprised when it turns out that they’ve fallen in love. This is the sort of thing that happens when you go on dates with people. Creating a prescriptive rule that they can’t just gives you a false sense of security and robs you of the ability to come to terms with the fact that your partner might fall in love with other people.

Similarly, if you are going about having unprotected sex with people, sometimes babies will happen. You can make a rule that your secondary partners have to have abortions, but you don’t actually have any ability to enforce this rule. You can manage your risk (through always using condoms, only having sex with people who use long-acting reversible contraception, not having PIV, etc.). But if you are in a situation in which there is a risk of pregnancy, saying “we have a rule that you can’t have a child!” gives you a false sense of security which (empirically) sometimes leads to people acting in wildly unethical ways when it is violated.

Third, most people want input into their relationships. Consider it from a monogamous perspective. A woman on a third date says to her prospective boyfriend, “I’ve made some plans about how my future relationship is going to work out. My husband is going to live with me in Portland, so that we can be near my family. We’re going to have three children. I’ve decided on a fair chore division: you get all the indoor chores and I get all the outdoor chores, except that I’ll do the laundry because I find folding clothes extremely meditative. You will take me out to dinner every Friday night because I believe a regular date night is very important. If you aren’t willing to accept all these conditions, dump me right now.”

This is not, needless to say, how third dates usually go.

Of course, nearly everyone has dealbreakers and visions about what their future life will be. But most people in happy relationships also negotiate their needs– they don’t just put it as a fait accompli. Maybe you care about date night, but going out bowling would be just as satisfactory. Maybe your partner also really loves folding the laundry, and so you can decide to fold clothes together. Maybe your partner is richer than you expected your partner to be, and he’s perfectly willing to pay to fly you up to visit your family as much as you like. Maybe two kids or four would also be fine.

But when a couple decides on the rules about secondary partners ahead of time and doesn’t let them renegotiate, that’s exactly what you’re doing! When you say as a flat rule “my secondary will not come on family vacations”, you’re not letting your secondary have any say in whether they love New York City and they love your kids and they want to take them around the museums for a couple days and, hey, it means you get some time with your primary too, so it’s a win for everyone!

Fourth, “secondary” is a really broad word that encompasses a wide variety of relationships, like I talked about earlier. “No family vacations!” might be a totally reasonable rule for someone you see once every few weeks, but if that relationship deepens, it might become unreasonable. If the rules are prescriptive rather than descriptive and– in particular– if they’re not open to renegotiation in changing circumstances, you can wind up sticking your relationships in a Procrustean bed, torturing them until they fit your preconceptions.

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