• About
  • Comment Policy

Thing of Things

~ The gradual supplanting of the natural by the just

Thing of Things

Tag Archives: sex postivity

Critique of Just Love, Part Two

01 Monday Oct 2018

Posted by ozymandias in rape, sex positivity

≈ 18 Comments

Tags

ozy blog post, rape tw, sex postivity

[Previously.]
[Content warning for discussion of the ethics of rape, pedophilia and sex with teenagers.]

Free Consent

Consent: Affirmative, Verbal, or Enthusiastic?

Consent is necessary for ethical sex. But what does “consent” mean? (As always throughout this series, I am discussing the ethics of sex, not the legalities.)

Many feminists have argued for an enthusiastic consent standard: that is, you shouldn’t have sex with someone unless they are enthusiastic about having sex with you. As the saying goes, “if it’s not a fuck yes, it’s a fuck no.” However, I ask the reader to consider the following vignettes:

  1. A couple struggling with infertility is trying to conceive a child. Their fertility monitor has shown that today is ovulation day. They’re both tired and neither of them is really feeling it, but they have a quickie to maximize their chance of conceiving.
  2. A man notices his boyfriend is horny today. Since he’s not in the mood, he cuddles his boyfriend while the boyfriend jerks off and whispers to him all of the nasty things he’ll do to him tomorrow.
  3. A woman and her girlfriend want to keep the spark alive. Every Friday, they schedule sex. They usually both end up getting incredibly turned on, but even if they don’t, making sure to have sex once a week makes them feel like sexual beings and increases their satisfaction with their sex life.

All three vignettes involve unenthusiastic consent. All three vignettes seem to me to be completely and utterly morally unproblematic. Certainly, some people might decide that it is wrong for them to have sex when they’re unenthusiastic about sex. But it seems to me to be perfectly normal and ordinary for some people to sometimes consent to sex when they aren’t enthusiastic about it, and have that as part of their flourishing as human beings.

You might try to save the enthusiastic consent metric by saying “the first couple is enthusiastically consenting to sex because they enthusiastically want a baby!” By this logic, if you hold a gun to my head and force me to have sex with you, I’m enthusiastically consenting because I enthusiastically want not to be dead.

So I think unenthusiastic consent is sometimes a part of ethical sex. I will now consider no-means-no consent, affirmative consent and verbal consent. (I am informed that everyone else uses “affirmative consent” and “verbal consent” interchangeably. This is stupid and I refuse to bow to common usage.)

No-means-no consent is beloved of consent rules lawyers everywhere. The basic idea is that if your partner says “no” or “stop” or “safeword” or “red,” then you should stop, and otherwise it is open season and you can do whatever you want.

The nice thing about no-means-no consent is that there is a bright line. If your partner has said “no” or “stop” or “safeword” or “red,” and you continued, then clearly you are doing something wrong. The problem with no-means-no consent is that, taken literally, it says that there is nothing wrong with getting as close as humanly possible to raping someone as long as you don’t technically rape them. In fact, it’s a good thing to do that! Hey, man, you got laid!

No-means-no consent implies that there is nothing wrong with having sex with a man if he is lying there, silent, unmoving, staring at the ceiling, with a blank expression on his face. After all, he didn’t say ‘no.’ Would you like a sticker that says Technically I Didn’t Commit A Felony on it?

I think we need a fundamental shift in our understanding of consent. We need affirmative consent.

As I use the term, seeking affirmative consent means only having sex with people if you have sufficient evidence to believe that they want, at that moment, to have sex with you. Explicit verbal consent, such as dirty talk, can be a form of affirmative consent, but it is only one form. Perhaps the most common form of affirmative consent is active participation, such as touching, moving, and kissing. Sounds like moaning or grunting can also be affirmative consent.

In general, I’d argue, affirmative consent should be given throughout the sex act. If your partner stops affirmatively consenting, you should pause and say something like “hey, you okay?”

Of course, this is a rule that admits of many exceptions. For example, some people become quiet and still and meditative during sex, which can be hard to distinguish from a person who isn’t enjoying sex. Some people enjoy roleplaying nonconsensual sex. Some people want to have sex when affirmative consent cannot possibly be given– most commonly, they want to be woken up during sex.

I think all these cases should be addressed through pre-sex negotiation. For example, you can say “I get really quiet when I’m turned on, but nothing’s wrong,” or “if I don’t call ‘red’, you should keep going,” or “you can wake me up with sex whenever you want,” or “you can wake me up with sex but only when I’ve said you can the night before.” (You might say that that is an unreasonable level of negotiation to have about sex while the other person is sleeping, which most people are fine with. This is because you have never dated a sleep-deprived person who has finally gotten a chance to sleep in, and it would be totally justified for them to throw an alarm clock at your head.)

I do not think explicit verbal consent is necessary for affirmative consent. Verbal consent means saying something like “I want to have sex with you,” or “let’s fuck,” or “do you want to have sex?”, or “down on your knees, slut,” or “your slave has prepared himself for you, master,” or otherwise communicating with your words that you want to have sex with someone.

The problem with saying “verbal consent is necessary for ethical sex” is that observably lots of people have sex without saying anything. My experiences with sex-without-saying-anything have mostly been that it was extremely awkward, not that my consent was disrespected or that people had difficulties reading my signals. I see no reason to believe that nonverbal communication is any less effective at conveying “I want this” than verbal communication. (Of course, verbal consent seems superior for complicated negotiations, such as kink or fetish negotiations, which probably explains its popularity in those communities.)

Verbal consent is also difficult to maintain continually throughout sex. It is not actually ethically mandatory to chant “yes! yes! yes! yes! yes!”, although many people may find it enjoyable. Therefore, verbal consent ends up being a form of no-means-no consent– once a person says “yes”, it is assumed they mean “yes” until they say “no” again. Affirmative consent, however, is possible to maintain all the time.

I suspect all these niceties, however, are rarely relevant in the bedrooms of the nonrapists of the world. In fact, I myself have had the experience of forgetting to establish a safeword before I began noncon play with someone. Don’t do this, it’s a terrible idea. And yet when I actually had to say no to sex, “no! I mean, really, no! This is not part of the scene, stop right now! RED! SAFEWORD!” conveyed the message very well and nothing bad happened.

I suspect the reason is that I was having sex with someone who actually cared about whether I wanted the sex. Naturally, they paid attention to information that suggested that I might not be interested in sex and paused to check in when they thought that might be the case. I think this is actually the normal way for sex to go among the non-rapists of the world.

Problematic Consent: Sex With Teenagers

Midway through writing this section, I noticed this old blog post of mine about age of consent, which I still agree with. Go read that.

Problematic Consent: Intoxicated Sex

The problem with ‘intoxicated sex’ as a category is that it refers to several different things.

First, sometimes when people say ‘intoxicated sex’ what they mean is ‘having sex with someone who has said that they don’t want to have sex with you when they are too intoxicated to meaningfully resist.’ That is technically called ‘rape’ and it’s a violent felony. Don’t do it.

Second, ‘intoxicated sex’ sometimes refers to sex with someone who is incapable of giving informed consent because they are too intoxicated to understand what they’re consenting to. If a person is confused about who they are, where they are, what time it is, or what’s going on, they are incapable of providing consent to sex, and having sex with them counts as rape morally and, in most jurisdictions, legally. (Exception: if a person has prearranged ahead of time that they consent to sex while intoxicated, I think that’s morally fine, although you’re on your own on the legalities.)

Third, ‘intoxicated sex’ sometimes refers to sex with a person who has consented to sex and understands what is going on but has poor judgment due to being intoxicated. I don’t think this counts as rape morally, and my understanding is that in nearly all jurisdictions it does not count as rape legally. (Unfortunately, sex education classes– even “feminist” sex education classes– often lie to people about this fact.) I think there are three cases worthy of consideration here.

The simplest case is when you’re having sex with someone who agreed while sober to sex while intoxicated, or with a person you know very very well (such as a long-term romantic partner) whom you sincerely believe would like to have intoxicated sex with you. In that case, I think you should go ahead and have sex, as long as you respect their drunken preferences (you don’t get to rape people even if their sober self said it was okay).

If a person has said while sober that they don’t want to have sex with you, or if you have reason to believe that they wouldn’t want to have sex with you while sober (e.g. they are married to someone else), then you should not have sex with them when they’re drunk no matter how enthusiastic they appear to be. You would be taking advantage of their poor judgment in order to get them to do something that they wouldn’t do sober; that is skeezy as fuck and shows a deep disrespect for the person’s ability to make informed choices about what happens to their own body.

A complicating factor is that some people get drunk in order to feel able to express preferences they can’t express sober. I feel sorry for these people and the way that our sex-negative culture has messed up their ability to communicate their sexual needs; they are victims, not wrongdoers. However, I do not think it is too much to ask that they at least maintain an ambiguous silence about their sexual desires while sober, so that people who know they make poor decisions while drunk can say “I do not want to have sex with you” and trust that that will be respected.

Finally, sometimes you don’t know whether someone would want something while sober: perhaps they’ve maintained an ambiguous silence, or perhaps you met them while they were intoxicated. I would not want to entirely ban drunken hookups with strangers. I understand this is a very common kink which many people enjoy greatly and find deeply fulfilling. However, I would suggest that if there is any uncertainty about whether your partner will regret it in the morning, you should suggest waiting until they sober up.

Obviously, quite often, people who are intoxicated enough that they have poor judgment are having sex with other people who are intoxicated enough that they have poor judgment. Being intoxicated is not an excuse for committing rape; if being intoxicated might cause you to commit violent felonies, then you should not become intoxicated. However, having sex with someone who might regret it in the morning is more of a puking-in-front-of-someone-else’s-door-and-not-cleaning-it-up offense, which is wrong but for which “I was really drunk and not in control of my actions” is an excuse.

Finally, if you are less intoxicated than the person you’re having sex with, it is your job to ensure that you have sex responsibly, including taking all safer-sex precautions.

Fourth, ‘intoxicated sex’ sometimes refers to sex with a person who is slightly intoxicated but still capable of making good decisions, such as a person who had a glass of wine with dinner. This sort of intoxicated sex is morally unproblematic.

[Coming up next post: power dynamics, sex work, safewords, emotional pressure, and suicidality.]

 

A Bunch of Incoherent Thoughts About Queer Fetishization, Mostly in Fandom, Coming To No Particular Conclusion

17 Wednesday Dec 2014

Posted by ozymandias in sex positivity

≈ 64 Comments

Tags

follow ozymandias271 for more sad gays, ozy blog post, sex postivity


[“No Homo: Two White Men Touch Each Other. Thursdays 9/8c. “So gay” — Fandom. “I can’t” –Tumblr.” Source.]

Trigger warning for discussion of sexual coercion.

1) I have a problem. I am, as a bisexual and female-presenting person, against bisexual fetishization. My sexuality is not for the consumption of straight dudes! I don’t like being a prop in someone else’s fantasy!

But also I really like watching boys kiss?

2) I see a lot of people complaining about how femmeslash and het are so much less popular than slash fic and attributing this to internal misogyny on the part of fic writers. But… most fanfic writers are straight girls. Of course straight girls are not really interested in porn starring women. It kind of comes with the “straight girl” territory. It’s like saying that straight men not wanting to watch gay porn is proof of their internal misandry.

3) One of the amazing things about watching Avatar: The Last Airbender is that I finally got to ship femmeslash.

(Note: I put off watching Avatar for years and years because people kept telling me about how amazing it was on a social justice level. I don’t watch TV for social justice points, I watch it for fun. So since I’m talking about amazing Avatar is on a social-justice level I feel duty-bound to mention that it also has astonishingly detailed and well-researched worldbuilding, fabulous characters, well-choreographed fight scenes, and clever writing, and you should go watch it.)

But like. There were female characters? More than one of them? And they talked to each other? And they had different personalities and flaws? And none of them were Strong Female Characters or damsels in distress? And holy shit Azula. You don’t get a lot of manipulative violent hypercompetent complete monster female characters who aren’t femme fatales, which is too bad because the “manipulative violent hypercompetent complete monster” characters are basically my favorite.

And suddenly all my OTPs are femmeslash, when previously I’d managed to go about a decade in fandom without the slightest femmeslashy impulse.

Which makes me wonder how much my previous slashy impulses, and the popularity of slash in general, were just because everything I watched was A Bunch of Guys and Black Widow, or A Bunch of Guys and Lieutenant Uhura, or A Bunch of Guys and We’re Not Even Bothering To Half-Ass A Female Character.

4) The first time I told a boyfriend I was bi, back when I was scared and closeted and still thought I was monogamous and a girl, his immediate response was that he didn’t like threesomes.

The second time I told a boyfriend I was bi, his immediate response was to ask me about my sexual fantasies of women.

I once dated a girl who for months only kissed me when there was a boy in the room to get off on it. I went along with it so at least I’d get to kiss her.

5) It’s one thing to consume lesbian porn. I mean, Some Of My Best Friends Like Watching Two Girls Get It On ™. I don’t care about your fondness for yuri! I really don’t! And I feel like most queer dudes probably have a similar attitude towards slash.

But at this point some asshole dude deciding that your sexuality is for his entertainment is pretty much a universal experience for those queer and read as female. (And some straight women too. Anyone get the “women are naturally more sexually fluid than men” line pulled on them?) I feel like a lot of that is because people get this sort of sexual fantasy from porn and then when they meet a queer woman they expect her to fulfill it. And shit man, it’s bad enough that we have to put up with it, I would be deeply unhappy if queer dudes had to put up with that too.

I dunno what the solution is. Maybe poll the non-asshole straight people that like watching queer people have sex and see how they manage to maintain the reality/porn distinction.

6) Maybe it’s different because fandom is mostly women and men historically have power over women. Maybe it’s different for me because I’m bisexual myself, because when I look at two boys kissing I imagine myself as one of the boys, because…

I dunno. I don’t like rules where it’s not okay to do something because you’re privileged but because you’re part of a marginalized group it’s okay. Seems to me if it’s wrong to make someone a prop in your fantasy it’s wrong no matter what group you’re part of.

7) I am deeply creeped out by dudes who are more attracted to me because I’m bi. I’m more attracted to dudes if they’re bi. And, okay, maybe some of it is shared experience of queerness, and some of it is ability to look at cute boys together, and some of it is not having to have that sneaking suspicion that the straight dude really sees me as a girl and is putting up with the whole “genderqueer” thing as one of my eccentricities. But a lot of it is “eeeeee boykissing!”

Never let it be said I’m not vastly hypocritical.

8) The accusation of queer baiting is weird. Like, yes, it would be really shitty if shows habitually hinted at characters being queer without actually making them queer as a calculated attempt to draw in slash fangirls. But I kind of feel like a lot of the accusations of queer baiting come from people who have their slash goggles permanently stuck on their foreheads and are just pissed their ships aren’t canon.

9) I think it’s awesome when straight girls make out for the hell of it. I think it’s awesome when straight girls make out to turn on guys, even, as long as they’re doing it because they want to and not because they feel like they have to to be sexy. I’ve kissed straight girls because kissing is fun and I’ll basically make out with anyone who asks. And I think that straight boys should be equally free to make out with each other and queers to make out heterosexually for the hell of it or to turn someone else on or because kissing is fun.

I’d just rather people stop assuming that when I kiss girls I’m doing it to get into his pants instead of hers. And I don’t want it to be that when some queer dude kisses a boy people assume he’s doing it to get into her pants instead of his.

Like My Blog?

  • Amazon Wishlist
  • Buy My Time
  • Patreon
  • Thing of Things Advice

Blogroll

  • Aha Parenting
  • Alas A Blog
  • Alicorn
  • Catholic Authenticity
  • Defeating the Dragons
  • Dylan Matthews
  • Effective Altruism Forum
  • Eukaryote Writes Blog
  • Eve Tushnet
  • Expecting Science
  • Glowfic
  • Gruntled and Hinged
  • Heteronormative Patriarchy for Men
  • Ideas
  • Intellectualizing
  • Jai With An I
  • Julia Belluz
  • Julia Serano
  • Kelsey Piper
  • Less Wrong
  • Love Joy Feminism
  • Neil Gaiman's Journal
  • Order of the Stick
  • Otium
  • Popehat
  • PostSecret
  • Rationalist Conspiracy
  • Real Social Skills
  • Science of Mom
  • Slate Star Codex
  • Sometimes A Lion
  • Spiritual Friendship
  • The Fat Nutritionist
  • The Pervocracy
  • The Rationalist Conspiracy
  • The Unit of Caring
  • The Whole Sky
  • Tits and Sass
  • Topher Brennan
  • Yes Means Yes

Recent Comments

Tulip on On Taste
nancylebovitz on Disconnected Thoughts on Nouns…
nancylebovitz on Against Asshole Atheists
nancylebovitz on Against Asshole Atheists
Richard Gadsden on Sacred Values Are How Ethical…
Richard Gadsden on The Curb Cut Effect, or Why It…
Review of Ernst Cass… on Against Steelmanning
Timberwere on Monsterhearts Moves List
Articles of Interest… on Getting To A Fifty/Fifty Split…
Eric on Bounty: Guide To Switching Fro…

Blog at WordPress.com.

Privacy & Cookies: This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this website, you agree to their use.
To find out more, including how to control cookies, see here: Cookie Policy
  • Follow Following
    • Thing of Things
    • Join 1,133 other followers
    • Already have a WordPress.com account? Log in now.
    • Thing of Things
    • Customize
    • Follow Following
    • Sign up
    • Log in
    • Report this content
    • View site in Reader
    • Manage subscriptions
    • Collapse this bar