[content warning: descriptions of common intrusive thoughts, including sexual violence, suicide, abuse, harm to children, child sexual abuse, etc]
Nearly everyone experiences intrusive thoughts.
An intrusive thought is a random unwanted and unpleasant thought, usually with violent, sexual, or blasphemous themes. A mother might be walking along the stairs carrying her infant and think “I could just throw my infant off the stairs.” A person waiting for the train might have an image of throwing himself in front of the train. A person praying might find “God is evil, God is evil” going through the back of their head. Someone might sometimes experience flashes of what it would be like to have sex with people– even people they don’t otherwise find attractive or even beings they would be horrified to have sex with, such as animals, family members, or children.
These thoughts are totally normal. Nearly everyone experiences them sometimes. In case you’re wondering “hey, what’s up with the thing where I sometimes think about throwing myself in front of the train even though I don’t actually have any desire to throw myself in front of a train and actually it’s kind of weird and upsetting?”, that’s what’s up with it.
I don’t think anyone knows for certain why people have intrusive thoughts. I’ve heard some people claim it’s the “think of a white bear” effect. Normally, you hardly ever think about white bears, unless you are a zoologist, but if you try to avoid thinking about a white bear, then suddenly everything reminds you of white bears. Normal people try to avoid thinking about attempting suicide or throwing their infants off stairs, and sometimes their brains get confused and are like “maybe that means we SHOULD think about throwing infants off stairs?” I don’t know if this is actually true but it seems like a reasonably plausible explanation.
Most people shrug off their intrusive thoughts. However, some people pay a lot of attention to their intrusive thoughts. They worry that having intrusive thoughts may make them bad people. They try to suppress them or perform rituals to get them to go away, which actually only makes them more common. In some cases, this can result in OCD.
The most widely known form of OCD is contamination OCD, OCD about getting contaminated with germs or getting sick. But in fact any of the common subjects of intrusive thoughts can result in OCD, including:
- Suicidal OCD (killing yourself)
- Responsibility OCD (failing to prevent harm to others, accidentally putting someone in danger)
- Sexual orientation OCD (being a different sexual orientation than the one you identify as)
- Harm OCD (doing violence, hurting other people)
- Pedophile OCD (sex with children)
- Religious OCD (blasphemy, failure to follow religious rules)
If you have a bunch of thoughts about hurting yourself or other people or disobeying God, and they’re really scary and distressing, and you’re worried that it makes you a bad person, and sometimes you do things to check whether you’re a bad person or to stop yourself from doing bad things, you might have OCD.
Here are some important things to know if you have OCD:
- Intrusive thoughts are normal and almost everyone has them.
- Having intrusive thoughts does not mean anything about you as a person. Intrusive thoughts about wanting to kill yourself don’t make you suicidal. Intrusive thoughts about hurting other people don’t make you violent. Intrusive thoughts about sex with children don’t make you a pedophile.
- Under some theories, intrusive thoughts actually mean you’re particularly concerned about not doing those things– that’s why your brain is trying to suppress them!
- Pedophiles and violent people do not find their thoughts and urges about the subject distressing.
- Suicidal people generally find something appealing about the concept of suicide, even if they’re also distressed by being suicidal.
- Trying to suppress the thoughts will not help.
- Trying to test whether you are violent, suicidal, pedophilic, etc will not help.
- Avoiding situations where you might be violent, suicidal, pedophilic, etc. also will not help.
- Accepting the thoughts as a normal part of life and allowing them to pass through your brain without judgment will help.
Getting treatment for OCD can improve your quality of life. Unfortunately, it can be difficult to obtain treatment for OCD if you suffer from certain kinds of intrusive thoughts, particularly suicide-related, violent, or pedophilic. Try to seek out care from a therapist who specializes in OCD. If you suffer from suicide-related or violent thoughts, you will generally be safe from hospitalization if you don’t go to a mental hospital and if you are clear that you would never act on your thoughts and that you have many good reasons not to act on them.
I do not know how to avoid triggering mandatory-reporter status if you have pedophile OCD and spend time around children, but I will update this post if any mental health professionals have any advice.
Thing of Things 
In the last list one of the sentences is imcomplete:
> Avoiding situations where you might be violent, suicidal, pedophilic, etc.
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“Pedophiles and violent people do not find their thoughts and urges about the subject distressing.”
Really? I’ve definitely read some interviews etc where they do.
Saying they don’t sound a bit too convenient, like it’s possible to divide the world into Good People and Bad People, and we don’t need to worry that we’re Bad People because if we were, we wouldn’t feel conflicted about it.
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Yeah, I mostly agreed with this post but that was the one line that jumped out to me as obviously untrue. Lots of pedophiles experience guilt and emotional conflict over their attractions. Similarly, I have no reason to believe that people who’ve done violent things don’t feel guilt over their actions. Maybe sociopaths don’t experience guilt, but most people who do violent things aren’t sociopaths.
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Also, there are people who don’t get distressed over such violent intrusive thoughts AND also don’t carry them out. Behavior involving ACTUAL pedophilia or violence sickens me, yet the intrusive thoughts I get don’t phase me because I understand that they’re just brain noises.
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The difference is that, for example, pedophilia is based in desire, while OCD is based in fear. People with OCD about pedophilia aren’t really sexually excited by minors. And no, it’s not a convenient way to divide the world into good and bad people. If someone with OCD about pedophilia works as a teacher, you can tell him to just accept the thoughts and his symptoms will get better and he won’t hurt any kids. That’s not a good strategy for an actual pedophile. A psychiatrist CANNOT treat someone with OCD the same way they would treat an actual pedophile or rapist or serial killer or whatever- it would just make their symptoms worse.
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“The difference is that, for example, pedophilia is based in desire, while OCD is based in fear.”
My point was that even actual pedophiles may experience guilt and fear over their own desires.
Obviously not everyone with intrusive thoughts about pedophilia is actually attracted to children, because like Ozy said, intrusive thoughts can be about anything. And obviously the treatment for the two things will differ. But fear/guilt and desire aren’t mutually exclusive either.
Also I get the sense there is some confusion about terminology here. The terms “pedophile” and “child molester” tend to be used interchangeably, but pedophilia just refers to the attraction. Most child molesters are pedophiles (for obvious reasons), but many pedophiles are not child molesters, so it is a bit weird to see the entire category (many of whom are people who have never committed a crime and just have an unfortunate mental condition) lumped in with serial killers and rapists.
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Michael, I agree with you on this. I had an obsession at age 20. It wasn’t pedo, but it was another thing most of us agree is morally wrong. Part of my issue at that time was a faulty belief that “if you have to ask, then what you suspect is probably true.” I figured the feelings were real and I was doomed to be “that guy” forever. The OCD sufferers are the ones whose guilt is entirely misplaced, but the question of whether the guilt is misplaced is hard to see when trapped in the OCD mentality. The guilt makes fake feelings seem realer than they have any right to be.
I can confirm the usefulness of treating the thoughts as a normal part of life. Chastising oneself is counterproductive. Many of the issues I had are what people on the internet call “pure O” but that only means the compulsions are hidden, not that they don’t exist. OCD is a simple cycle of obsession and compulsion feeding on each other. A physical compulsion I had (r/CompulsiveSkinPicking) was a point at which I could at least say, “something real is going on here, and it’s not just thoughts.”
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Rot13 because potential infohazard for people.
V jnf qvntabfrq jvgu BPQ nf n grrantre, naq vg jnf haqre pbageby sbe n juvyr.
Gura, V zbirq va jvgu fbzrbar V jnf qngvat. Nsgre fbzr pbasyvpg ertneqvat gru nzbhag bs gvzr V fcrag ba fpubbyjbex naq sevraqf if gur gvzr V fcrag jvgu gurz, gurl fgnegrq ercbegvat vagehfvir gubhtugf nobhg encvat, gbeghevat naq frkhnyyl zhgvyngvat zr juvyr V fyrcg. V gbyq gurz guvf fbhaqrq yvxr zl BPQ naq abg gb jbeel nobhg vg. Gura, gurl fgnegrq gb oernx n obhaqnel V unq, juvpu jnf ab znfgheongvat arkg gb zr juvyr V fyrrc. V unq gung obhaqnel orpnhfr V jnf jbeevrq nobhg jnxvat hc gb n frkhny fvghngvba sbe cevbe genhzn ernfbaf. Gurl gbyq zr gung gurl jrer nsenvq gung vs gurl qvqa’g qb gung, gurl jbhyq fgneg npgvat bhg gurve snagnfvrf, juvpu gurl jrer znfgheongvat gb juvyr fyrrcvat arkg gb zr. Gurl fgnegrq gb abapbafrafhnyyl gbhpu zr frkhnyyl va zl fyrrc, rira gubhtu V unq n uneq yvzvg nobhg gung nf jryy. Riraghnyyl, V ershfrq gb fyrrc arkg gb gurz, ohg guvf qvqa’g fgbc gur fyrrc-gvzr frkhny nohfr. Guebhtubhg gur nohfr gurl oynzrq zr sbe guvf unccravat, gryyvat zr vg jnf bayl unccravat orpnhfr V jnfa’g unir rabhtu frk jvgu gurz, jnfa’g nssrpgvbangr rabhtu naq jnf abg fcraqvat rabhtu gvzr jvgu gurz, naq rkcerffrq n srne gung gurl zvtug qb jbefr gb zr fbzrqnl. Va nqqvgvba gb gurfr guvatf, qhevat jnxr-gvzr frk gurl serdhragyl oebxr obhaqnevrf naq vtaberq fnsrjbeqvat. Gurl qvq guvf nebhaq abafrkhny obhaqnevrf nebhaq gbhpu nf jryy, bsgra gbhpuvat zr va jnlf gung jrer frireryl culfvpnyyl cnvashy. Gurl inpvyyvgngrq orgjrra rkgerzr, fbzrgvzrf fhvpvqny thvyg bire gurve gerngzrag bs zr, naq natre ng zr sbe cebibxvat guvf gerngzrag jvgu zl “haernfbanoyr” obhaqnevrf naq vafhssvpvrag nggragvba. Gurl nyfb vafhygrq zr serdhragyl, vfbyngrq zr sebz zl sevraqf naq bgure cnegaref, naq gbyq zr gb fgbc fubjvat fvtaf bs wbl va gurve cerfrapr orpnhfr zl unccvarff jnf hasnve gb gurz.
Zl gurencvfg fnvq gung V jnf va n fgenvtug-sbejneqyl nohfvir eryngvbafuvc, naq gung zl rk jnf cbffvoyl snxvat BPQ nf n jnl gb shpx jvgu zr, orpnhfr crbcyr jvgu BPQ qb abg npg ba gurve hetrf, naq gung V fubhyq vagrecerg jung gurl unq fnvq nf gurz whfg fgenvtug hc guerngravat zr.
V’ir ybat fgbccrq vagrenpgvat jvgu guvf crefba naq va n fnsr cynpr abj, ohg V pna’g funxr gur srne fbzrgvzrf gung znlor gurl unq n sbez bs vagehfvir gubhtugf gung yrnq gb gurz bssraqvat naq ubj qb V xabj V qba’g unir gur fnzr sbez bs vagehfvir gubhtugf engure guna gur xvaq gung qbrfa’g yrnq gb bssraqvat. V’z nsenvq zl gurencvfg jnf ylvat gb zr nobhg ubj qvfgvathvfunoyr gurfr gjb guvatf ner.
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Gurer’f abg whfg bar ohg zhygvcyr fgrcf va orgjrra vagehfvir gubhtugf naq gur xvaq bs orunivbe lbhe rk ratntrq va, naq nyy bs gur fgrcf ner sne sebz orvat varivgnoyr pbafrdhraprf bs gur cerivbhf barf. Zbfg vzcbegnagyl, vs lbhe BPQ qvq yrnq lbh gb qb fbzrguvat lbhe cnegare qvqa’g yvxr, BPQ fgvyy pbhyqa’g pnhfr lbh gb oynzr lbhe cnegare vs lbh jrera’g nyernql vapyvarq gb qb fb.
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To clarify, the intrusive thoughts don’t just have to be of doing something bad. They could be “warnings”. For example, an OCD sufferer could experience an intrusive thought that they hit someone while driving a car and go back to check- and of course, no one was hit.
This website has some good information on OCD:
https://www.ocdonline.com/
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I think there are (at least) two kinds of intrusive thoughts.
When I go past the stairs that go down to a subway, I sometimes have an idle thought about throwing myself down them. It’s vague, low-intensity, and easy to brush off. It’s quite possible that I could make matters worse by focusing on it, but I have no inclination to focus on it.
On the other hand, I have frequent intrusive thoughts that really do intrude. They’re more in the nature of “You’re no goddamn good, you piece of shit.” They’re loud, persistent, and varied. Doing much of anything useful can set them off.
They haven’t been there for my whole life. They probably got started when I was about 40. They are in the voice of my useful internal monologue, not the voice of anyone from my life.
Social justice makes them a lot worse, since everything is worse with white people, and I’m not supposed to take that personally.
Sometimes there’s more of this, sometimes less.
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Yeah, social justice rhetoric is one of my big triggers too. Sometimes people will say, “Well, then just avoid it or don’t engage with it.” Which is easier said than done. It’s not always avoidable, because it’s very pervasive; it permeates many communities that I’m a part of and can’t totally detach from. I am going to encounter it frequently whether I want to or not.
I find that trying to engage with it within communities where it’s pervasive is often not helpful, but it is helpful and important for me to read well-thought-out rebuttals of the more noxious and psychologically manipulative styles of SJ rhetoric; it’s giving myself the mental tools to defend against it when I encounter it.
Another helpful thing for me has been to continually remind myself that this style of political rhetoric is, in fact, designed to manipulate people and get under their skin, and those with OCD or scrupulosity issues are going to be particularly vulnerable to that. In some sense, that means approaching it from a more conflict-theory and less mistake-theory angle. When someone is trying to push the white guilt button or whatever, I remind myself, “This person is trying to manipulate you using emotions,” and just that reminder sometimes defuses the effect and allows me to quickly extract myself from the situation, rather than getting defensive and trying to engage with them.
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What do you recommend for well thought out rebuttals?
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Pretty much any of Scott’s articles on the subject (though I’m sure you’re familiar with those). Quillette trends a bit right-wing for my tastes but I’ve seen some good articles there too. Jonathan Haidt and Sam Harris have both written and commented a lot on the issue, and Haidt has a new book out that’s entirely about that. I’m not all that familiar with Jordan Peterson and people have some…highly varied opinions about him, but he is also well-known for his critiques of SJ morality.
(If anyone else has other examples, I am looking for some new reading material myself.)
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For the race stuff, I just see myself as a Jew and not really white according to the white supremacists.
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Freddy deBoer has written criticisms of Social Justice excesses from a position of high agreement with the concerns and goals of SJ advocates, where he points out blind spots and excesses. For example, here. Note that he has deleted many of his writings because of his mental tribulations, but they can still be found in archives.
I personally disagree with him on many of the facts he believes in and some of the harms he sees (or at least the extent to which the harm exists), but for the specific purpose of criticizing the manipulations without ‘polluting’ the arguments with other criticisms, it may be a good source.
I would not advise Peterson for this purpose, as his criticism is centered around what he sees as denials of (harsh) reality and the harm that this does. He doesn’t examine the manipulations very deeply. I would advise him more if you want a decent defense of tough love. His philosophy is essentially anti-SJ (and not very progressive) at the core in that he sees the world as inherently quite cruel and selfish, where we cannot expect others to sacrifice for us and adapt to us unless we meet them half-way by sacrificing for them and adapting to them.
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Social justice arguments in general and MeToo in particular can trigger the second type of intrusive thought in my inner monologue to. There are times when it feels that if you are a cis-gender, heterosexual man experiencing frustration in that area of life than the social justice response is a loud “fish you, you are a man and must earn each and everything in each and everyway, on each and everyday.” It feels like being on the receiving end of a lot on anger merely because you are lonely.
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I would go further than that: dating issues are often taken as evidence of misbehavior towards women, where it is taken as a given that the issues are due to being turned down for a good cause.
So the messaging is then not just a generic: you are a male oppressor and have the power & privilege, so if you have problems, it’s all on you; but also, a far more personalized shaming where the person is implicitly or explicitly denounced as being abusive.
This is obviously an issue for anxious/scrupulous men who already worry about being offensive or otherwise doing harm and whose dating problems may stem from not daring to do something that may be undesired, yet objectively not very harmful at all (like asking someone out).
I think that a lot of this comes from a lack of understanding of the male experience and diversity among men, where instead, men are treated as some generic ‘bro’ stereotype.
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This conversation is off-topic and will stop now.
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This post was so great! I feel like nobody ever discusses intrusive thoughts in relation to OCD, just the cleaning aspect, so thank you for this!
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