I am not a trans woman. However, I have talked to a lot of assigned male at birth trans people, as well as those who are considering transition, and I know how much a lot of people struggle with the discourse around autogynephilia. I know people who desperately, desperately want to live as women, but feel alienated when they read that autogynephilia isn’t a thing. Does that mean they aren’t women? That they’re just perverts?
To be clear, nothing in this post should be taken as an endorsement of the Blanchard-Bailey theory of autogynephilia, which is clearly untrue. The Blanchard-Bailey theory denies the existence of autoandrophilia, in spite of its obvious truth (hang around some transmasculine slash fans sometime). It divides trans women into two binary categories– autogynephiliac late-transitioning queer women who work as programmers, and non-autogynephiliac early-transitioning straight women who work in typically feminine professions– going so far as to claim all trans women fall into one or the other category. In reality, most trans women do not fit the autogynephile-homosexual binary; the factors may or may not be correlated, but there are many exceptions. They claim all trans women are autogynephiles, when a substantial percentage– perhaps most– have never experienced autogynephilia. And they have claimed that denial about whether one is an autogynephile is a common trait in autogynephilia, making their theory (based primarily on self-report) utterly unfalsifiable– the definition of bad science.
Also, this post should not be taken to mean that any people should not transition. I think all three groups I discuss should transition if, upon reflection, they believe that is the best choice for them.
I think the concept ‘autogynephilia’ combines three conceptually different things.
First, trans women who jerk off while imagining themselves having a female body. This is perfectly ordinary female behavior– after all, most cis women jerk off imagining themselves with breasts and a vulva as well. They may also imagine themselves as more conventionally attractive than they are, which– again– is perfectly normal female behavior which many cis women engage in as well. They may become aroused when wearing sexy clothes, such as lingerie and red lipstick, which is also common among cis women. This form of autogynephilia can be safely classified as the unfair pathologization of ordinary female sexuality when done by a person assigned male at birth.
Second, autogynephilia may be a manifestation of gender dysphoria. Typical instances of this form of autogynephilia include sissification or forced feminization fantasies, transformation fantasies, erotic crossdressing, and sexual fantasies about such nonsexual activities as talking to women as a woman or putting in a tampon. Slash and yaoi fandoms are a common home for transmasculine autoandrophiles.
It is unclear to me how exactly the link between gender dysphoria and autogynephilia happens. It may be that gender dysphoria often manifests more strongly around puberty when one’s body becomes more sexed, the same time that sexuality comes to the forefront, and so naturally winds up eroticized for many people. It may be a coping mechanism or sublimation of feelings that are difficult to deal with. It may be that gender identity is closely connected to sexuality for many people who have a gender identity. Naturally, this is different for cis women who have gender identities (who typically have no doubt about whether they’re women or not) and trans women who have gender identities (whose experience might be more of a desperate desire to be a girl than a secure knowledge of same). A trans woman might fantasize about being forced to become a woman (if she feels ashamed of her desires), about magic that turns her into a woman (if she feels it’s impossible), or simply about being a woman.
It has been observed that autogynephilia often lessens or even goes away after transition. Anne Lawrence, puzzlingly, declared that this was because autogynephiliac trans people are romantically in love with their female selves and naturally the sexual element decreases later in a relationship, which is… not how sexual fetishes work. To me, a more plausible explanation is that when gender dysphoria decreases– such as when you’re gendered properly and have a body you’re comfortable in– autogynephilia, being linked to it, decreases as well.
It would be remiss not to mention that some people experience unwanted sexual arousal while crossdressing for gender-identity-related reasons. I am not sure why this is, but it seems relevant.
Third, there are what one might call ‘true autogynephiles.’ The majority of autogynephiles appear to have no particular desire to transition– they’re perfectly comfortable being straight men who occasionally jerk off to sissy porn or Corruption of Champions. Nevertheless, a very small percentage of trans people say that they were primarily motivated to transition because it was erotic to them. While this is extraordinarily rare, I do think it is worth mentioning, and I support true autogynephiles having access to treatment, the same way I support all gender dysphorics having access to treatment. (Yes, autogynephiles who want to transition are gender dysphoric. Look up the DSM-V definition of gender dysphoria.)
Thing of Things 
A point of epistemology, without saying anything in this comment about the object-level issue—
Hypotheses under which some self-reports are inaccurate may be ultimately improbable (insofar as we have a prior expectation that self-reports are accurate), and they’re certainly more difficult to definitively disprove than hypotheses under which self-reports are accurate (which should of course make critics extremely suspicious!), but as a matter of Bayesian reasoning, utterly unfalsifiable is too strong: it’s not the case that there are literally no possible observations which are more likely if some self-reports are inaccurate.
For example, a correlation between socially-desirable responding style in general and self-reports about some specific trait X would be the sort of thing we might expect to see in a world where some self-reports about X are inaccurate, that we wouldn’t expect to see in a world where self-reports about X were accurate.
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Eh, fair, but just a correlation between social response bias and denial of autogynephilia makes it hard to distinguish between “some queer trans women hide their autogynephiliac fantasies, and some are not autogynephiles at all” and “all queer trans women are autogynephiles”– the latter is what Blanchard/Bailey support. I think the former is probably true; indeed, it would be strange if it weren’t true, because people with high social response bias are likely to hide all sorts of stigmatized sexual fantasies.
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I feel like there’s a conflation going on here between erotic fantasy and desire. They’re… different things? People fantasize about things they wouldn’t actually want to happen all the time, which means that one shouldn’t draw inferences about what somebody desires from what they fantasize about, and likewise one shouldn’t draw inferences about what somebody fantasizes about from what they desire.
Are there people who don’t grasp the difference? Or does the difference just literally not exist for some people? (I do have some intuition it might depend upon being self-aware enough to notice when puberty starts overwriting the “consciousness” application with its own runtimes.)
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There are people who have fantasies they know they wouldn’t act on yet still draw (perhaps non-obvious) inferences about what someone (including themselves) desire from what they fantasize about.
I can expand if you want, but it’d have to be a bit in depth and I’m not sure if you’ll even see this comment let alone be interested to hear it.
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Serious question- if it weren’t for the political importance of bad feminist “science,” both in terms of people advancing it and people reacting to it, would there be an issue here?
Like… I don’t know everything about the politics of the issue, and the drama in particular, but from what I have seen it seems to be this: some radfem made the (obviously false if you spend five minutes looking around online) declaration that all transwomen were autogynophiles, and all autogynophiles were transwomen. Then she drew some really insulting conclusions from this false premise. Then people got mad, which it seems like they had a right to do. So some of them declared that autogynophilia wasn’t even a thing, which they shouldn’t have done and which can also be refuted with five minutes on tumblr.
Is there an actual issue beyond this? I’m not trying to be dismissive (as stated in other threads I HIGHLY ENDORSE consenting adults doing what they want, and I consider the fact that a sexual choice was made freely and without meaningful coercion to be a nearly irrefutable prima facie case that the choice was the right one for that person, and a darn near irrefutable proof that the choice isn’t our business and even if it was the wrong one for that person it’s their business to work that out). But is there any issue here other than radfems being, as the kids say, aggro?
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Blanchard and Bailey are not feminists. Furthermore, The Transsexual Empire, the first major attack on trans women from a notable feminist, was published in 1979. Bailey’s book, which popularized the notion of autogynephilia, was published in 2003. So no, your history is completely off.
Certainly the TERFs grabbed hold of the “autogynephilia” thing, as did the right-wing transphobes. Anyone who wanted to hurt trans women did. So it goes. But if TERFs did not exist, the right-wing still would. The dreadful law in North Carolina, for example, certainly was not driven by radical feminists (who so far as I can tell play little role in the “bible belt” version of Republican politics).
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I don’t really understand your point. Do you mean that it in general doesn’t matter when people are wrong, and that it’s silly to argue against a wrong argument? (If so, this would apply to nearly everything Ozy posts, not just this?)
In this case it matters because apparently the autogynephilia-is-everything contingent has a substantial amount of power to make the lives of trans women worse in various ways. But even if that wasn’t the case, why wouldn’t it be worthwhile to post a response to a wrong argument that lots of people are making?
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I didn’t have a deep point.
All previous encounters I’ve had with this issue have been via radical feminists.
I wanted to know if there was more to this than “Theory oriented feminists like to sit in arm chairs and dream up ludicrous reasons to libel the people they hate” versus “we really care about what radfems think for some reason.”
Per Veronica’s response, and some subsequent googling, it seems that the “it’s mostly autogynophilic gay men” guy was indeed influential prior to radfems picking up on him. Not just around, mind, but actually influential. I did not know that.
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It seems axiomatic that terrible arguments become more worthy of refutation when they’re important politically.
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Data point (I don’t really feel like saying this under my name, but fuck this): around 18~19 when I was first seriously questioning my gender identity I was massively into gender-bender/crossdressing/trap/futa/forced feminization/etc manga – both SFW and hentai – often finding it very arousing, was furiously collecting pictures of trans women and passing male crossdressers (without actually doing much with them), and often fantasized about being turned into a woman (I researched and knew a lot about HRT, but being in Russia, and primarily exposed to 4chan-like trans discourse, which was obsessed with passing, attractiveness, and essentialist ideas like “you’re only a woman iff you cannot mentally rotate objects, but are obsessed with decoration and can cross your legs while sitting”, I couldn’t quite conceptualize the idea that it’s acceptable to be a 6’1″ tall woman (eh, in fact I’ve been sometimes looking at pictures of nor particularly attractive trans women, and thinking “well, OK, I’d like to transition, but I don’t want to transition into someone like them”, for which I’m very sorry)), and in general being a central example of autogynephile stereotypes (in fact, that was a jackpot: being a programmer, watching anime, and listening to metal). But as soon as I started presenting feminine on a regular basis – not even physically or socially transitioning – this went away almost entirely, with very rare relapses, mostly in the context of online shopping for clothes, which give me kinda strong impostor syndrome, but that’s much more manageable.
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I think that I might actually be a “true autogynephile.” I do sometimes fantasize about being a beautiful woman, and if I could say, instantly transform my body into a conventionally beautiful woman’s and then back into what I normally look like with nanotechnology or anime magic, I would do it all the time.
I’m cis-by-default, though, not trans. I don’t experience any dysphoria in my own body, and any sort of recreational transition seems like it would be a lot of trouble to execute (both materially and socially) and I feel like it probably wouldn’t quite deliver the experience that I would want.
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Oh, and another data point, I’m pansexual.
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On a related data point, I’m cishet monogamous (maybe by default, but happily and with no desire to change) and I often go for female POV fantasies – female arousal is a big turn on for me, and I always saw female POV as a natural extension of that. I don’t know if that qualifies as autogynophila, though.
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This seems common enough that “cis man is transformed into attractive woman by magic, is ecstatic for pervy reasons” is something of a cinematic cliche.
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Nice to see this talked about. It would probably be good if your category 3 (people who genuinely have this experience) got a little more examination, maybe.
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This seems like an equivocation. Either that or I’ve just learned something incredible about the sexuality of most cis women. I mean, the difference between “I’m having a sexual fantasy and I’m a woman in it” and “my sexual fantasy is that I’m a woman” seems pretty important.
Speaking as a cis man, I don’t find it especially arousing to consider the fact that I’m a dude and I have dude parts. If I’m fantasizing about having sex as a man, the fantasy involves those parts, but they aren’t what’s arousing about it. Looking at myself in the mirror and whispering “ooh yeah, this is my dong, I got my dong right here” doesn’t do much for me. But when it comes to autogynephilia, I think that’s basically the core of many fantasies (in less comedic form).
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Well, yes, but trans women who have sexual fantasies in which they are women are often considered to be autogynephiliac.
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Do you think your fantasies would be more focused around having a penis if you didn’t have one – say, if you lost it due to trauma, but retained your libido?
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Well, I can’t say for sure they wouldn’t be, but I don’t have any reason to think they would. I’ve never heard of men having that as a fantasy.
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>I don’t find it especially arousing to consider the fact that I’m a dude and I have dude parts.
Mainstream porn does famously tend to exaggerate the average size of said dude parts, while being aimed at an ostentatiously straight male audience. Perhaps it’s more common than you think?
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Just on porn for nominally straight men, the penis-focus in such porn never fails to amaze me.
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Here’s what I think is actually going on here: politics.
BBL’s autogynephilia theory posits that sexual desire and fetishism can be a motivation to transition. Additionally, they argue that a wide range of trans people, with particular characteristics, likely have autogynephilia.
Such a theory is deeply inconvenient for trans acceptance, because we are in a society where sexual motives are not seen as a “valid” reason for transitioning (except to BBL), and fetishism is considered low-status. The theory gets in the way of narratives about reasons that trans people transition, and many trans women are, understandably, offended by the implication that their psychology might be something other than what they claim. People on the right and TERFs are using autogynephilia to attack trans people.
If the theory was slightly different such that it was no longer politically inconvenient, then autogynephiles would be welcomed into the trans / queer coalition with open arms, and we would not be having any debate.
Most of the complaints about autogynephilia fail to do justice to the theory. BBL’s theories are very detailed and falsifiable, and they have a good reputation in their field. In psychology, it’s totally mainstream to theorize that some people might not understand their own motivations. And there are many people who very stereotypically fit BBL’s theories and acknowledge this, while their experiences are not explained by any other theory.
– Autogynephilia is nothing like what women feel when putting on lingerie. Heterosexual women are not gynephiles. They may get turned on by imagining themselves dressed up, but that’s different from being attracted to an image of themselves. See the “erotic target location error” concept.
– You say that you are unclear about the link between gender dysphoria and autogynephilia. Gender dysphoria, in many individuals, is likely caused by atypical feminization or masculinization of the brain. In the case of autogynephiles, they are experiencing gender dysphoria due to the erotic target location error, which occurs around puberty and they are able to be attracted to the image of themselves.
– Autogynephilia lessening: Romantic self-love is one of Lawrence’s theories, yes. But why scoff at it? How do you know it can’t be true? Also, that’s not the only theory Lawrence offers: she also says that when autogynephiles hormonally transition, it might decrease their sex drive. Since their autogynephilia is based on their sex drive, it then decreases.
Ultimately, BBL’s theories may be overdrawn, or rudely applied to people who don’t identify with them, but in general, they are an important addition to the literature and a big help for many people to understand themselves and figure out their identities. This would be easier to see, if not for the politics involved.
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My thoughts are the same. I found myself confused how the concept of autogynephilia in any way invalidated the desires of transpeople. If your transition is motivated by a desire to have orgasms more easily, that sounds perfectly valid to me.
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That is an empirical claim. Let’s see: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?start=0&q=autogynephilia&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5
638 papers and citations total. I’m only considering papers, since their stance I can evaluate, and only went through first 8 results pages, but hopefully it’s representative:
28 Pro-autogynephilia by Blanchard, Bailey or Lawrence
5 Pro-autogynephilia by someone else
15 Critique/against autogynephilia
2 Autogynephilia in cis women (which directly contradicts BBL)
1 Public opinion study about autogynephilia, without evaluating its truth value
To me it doesn’t at all look like “good reputation in their field”, more like “spamming their field with their pet hypothesis, while the field mostly doesn’t react, but when it does, 75% disagree”.
Also, just to gauge how much bullshit can get published and supported and psych research, I present you a 2006 peer reviewed Russian paper “Normalization of homosexualism as a medical and social problem” – http://npar.ru/journal/2006/4/homosexuality.htm – which laments how homosexuality was unfairly removed from DSM under political pressure, how American journals are underreporting the successes of conversion therapy, and how while it’s probably a good idea to leave the happily living gays alone (wow! so tolerant! much acceptance!), if they’re unhappy with something – especially their gay relationships – a good therapist should try to talk them out of their “paraphilia” and teach to appreciate straight love.
Now, I’m of a far higher opinion of the American psych community than of the Russian one, but it is nonetheless a community with a long history of pathologization of LGBT identities, and gatekeeping in trans health care. So I think it’s very fair to take hypotheses in this area with a grain of salt.
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I believe spamming one’s field with one’s pet hypothesis is not uncommon behavior for scientists.
I completely reject the notion that you can gauge the status of a theory, especially a controversial one, simply by tallying up studies, without looking at the content of the theory of who is accepting/rejecting it.
BBL’s theory of autogynephilia is taken seriously in the field. It’s a theory that makes specific and daring predictions, like observing the number of crossdressers who are programmers. You would never figure this out from the disdainful summaries of their popular critics.
BBL are facing a witchhunt, so it’s surprising that anyone is willing to publicly agree with them. I think it’s pretty obvious that a lot of the published critiques are jumping in on this witchhunt.
As for Russia, I’m going to bite the bullet on conversion therapy: I think it’s good that people somewhere are studying it. Ego-dystonic sexualities are a thing, particularly for people in a questioning state, and clinicians should be trying to help these people. In the West, the possibility of conversion therapy or straight lifestyles for gay people must be denied, and gay / trans people must be convinced to identify with their sexualities as much as possible, because the politics demands it. Ego-dystonic folks must be thrown under the bus, along with the autogynephiles.
So it’s very likely that the science on the subject is not settled, in which case your example would actually prove my point that the science on alternative sexualities is not in a good state right now.
I do feel sorry for queer people in Russia, though… they are caught in the East/West political conflict. The politics really aren’t helping anything.
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There actually is evidence that “autogynephilia” does decrease as individuals progress in their transition and presenting as a woman becomes an everyday thing that loses its private novelty and excitement – see section 5 of http://genderanalysis.net/2016/04/alice-dreger-autogynephilia-and-the-misrepresentation-of-trans-sexualities-book-review-galileos-middle-finger/.
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I might have some stuff to contribute to this topic!
I’m still very confused about all this stuff, I am currently a technically-agender-but-basically-cis-for-all-practical-purposes-guy who has somewhat considered the idea of going trans at some point, for other more normal reasons also but I am definitely an autogynephyle, sometimes I think(/worry?) that I am a type 3 as described here.
Very poor epistemic status as I am too autistic too understand my own feelings most of the time:
Something notable about my personal experience- I feel like my sexuality and my sex get in the way of each other (both because of the gender roles of society and the gender roles of my own sexuality), and also I have a strong desire to be attractive to myself. That last part might be important I think- its not so much getting off on being a girl in of itself (though there is that too) as having a desire to be able to get off on myself rather than others. My ideal, as weird as it sounds, is kind of like a third person sexuality, like when watching porn- I get off on girl!myself more than the sexual partners (my fantasies here are often with guys- I am mostly hetero normally).
But I also sometimes feel like I am forcing myself to feel these ways rather than doing so naturally, if that makes any sense.
I also wouldn’t be surprised if this was all just a weird pathology that would go away with a sexual relationship. I wouldn’t be surprised if it wasn’t either though.
And yes, I know I sound exactly like a stereotypical pre-transgirl alot.
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I moderate a forum for a fetish with a lot of overlap with autogynephilia, and I’d estimate that our percentage of trans-people is much, much higher than the national average. I would not be surprised if half of our women had penises. I would agree with you that the third group is the largest, but I think the first group is a sizeable minority. I would also be interested to see how much the apparent disappearance of autogynephilia post-transition is specific to autogynephilia, or whether there’s a general dampening of all sorts of fetishes.
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Estrogen lowers libido. But my kinks, nah. Still got them. Plus a few remarkable new ones.
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What does it mean for a kink to be “dampened” in this case? It becomes a less frequent part of your sexuality? You fantasize about it / exercise it less frequently? Because if the second, Veronica’s comment re: libido fully explains the effect. If the first, maybe there’s something to study.
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I guess I’ll weigh in on this. Can we assume I’ve given all the necessary #notallmens and #somewomens (plus #whateverenbiesdo), as such. Like, I assume everyone here understands bimodal distributions and how no one fits their “cluster” perfectly — and in particular the majority of people on this forum likely don’t fit into any “cluster” in any uncomplicated way.
Whatever. I’m gonna say shit about men that isn’t so nice, with the hope that folks get what I am saying.
Men can become sexually obsessed, sexually single-minded, sexually driven, etc., in a really fucked-up, freaky way. Like, dudes will watch porn for 349032948093240980 hours straight. They’ll glom on to some kink, like it will be breastfeeding night or enema night, and seek that shit out like crazy.
Okay, so imagine being a sex worker who ends up catering to some kind of kink — like maybe shitty economics just kind of drove her there. For example, a lot of trans sex workers don’t get the choice to be “high class call girls with only the best clients.” Anyway, women such as that ain’t seeing these guys at their best. They’re seeing guys who want that one thing OMG and only that one thing OMG. The woman is a vaguely-human-shaped meatsack with a fuckhole.
Blah.
It’s like this mind-killing, obsessive sex drive.
After he cums, it drops fast. The libido is gone. The drive is gone. And then — well, he’s got his shame and this human-shaped creature who is the object of his shame.
#####
Obviously there are many unhealthy ways this all plays out, when multiple humans are involved.
#####
A woman might be “into enemas” or whatever, but like, take-it-or-leave-it. There is other stuff. The peak is not so obsessive, less crazy-making. The drop is less steep.
The thing is, men are not like like this all the time (obviously). It’s a “some of the time” thing. It’s something that happens. The rest of the time, he’s just a normal dude who likes normal dude stuff.
Plus boobs! But who doesn’t like boobs?
#notallmen, maybe #notyou, but whatevs. It’s a thing.
Some trans women are like this before transition. After transition, it just kinda stops happening. It’s not that they lose their desire for sex, even kinky sex. But that mind-killing-sex-crazed stuff, it just stops.
Personally I suspect it’s mostly hormones. But who knows. Maybe socialization plays a role. Maybe living for a while as the “sexual target class” shifts viewpoints. I bet it’s a lot of things. But actually, it’s probably mostly hormones.
Of course, not all guys feel this way anyhow. Libido varies. The expression of libido varies. Some trans gals start ace and remain ace. Some men are as shy as a wildflower. Some women are sex-crazed predators.
Everything happens.
But it happens bimodally.
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Yes? I think we’re all actually in agreement that estrogen lowers libido and there is a good chance people are confusing this with estrogen reducing kinkiness.
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I’ve replied to this post on my blog.
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This is going to be a bit of a necropost, but:
“Third, there are what one might call ‘true autogynephiles.’ The majority of autogynephiles appear to have no particular desire to transition– they’re perfectly comfortable being straight men who occasionally jerk off to sissy porn or Corruption of Champions. Nevertheless, a very small percentage of trans people say that they were primarily motivated to transition because it was erotic to them. While this is extraordinarily rare, I do think it is worth mentioning, and I support true autogynephiles having access to treatment, the same way I support all gender dysphorics having access to treatment. (Yes, autogynephiles who want to transition are gender dysphoric. Look up the DSM-V definition of gender dysphoria.)”
According to my surveys, there’s a direct correspondence between intensity of autogynephilia and desire to have female traits, with *no* exceptions; all people who are intensely AGP find being female appealing, and there’s no separation at any intensity scale.
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Tailcalled, sorry for forgetting, but have you written up your survey results in more detail someplace? Tx!
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Not yet. I have created surveyanon.wordpress.com, where I will eventually present bits of the survey results in small quasi-blogposts (I don’t trust my own productivity enough to promise a true blog), but I don’t want to start posting until I’ve figured out where to share my results. I’ve considered various reddit communities, but none have seemed great. There’s not much point blogging about it if it isn’t going to get seen.
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Since you asked, I thought I should inform you that I’ve now written a post where I go into more detail. It’s available on surveyanon.wordpress.com.
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Could you clarify this graph a bit? It looks like there *are* cis AGPs from that graph, because the y axis starts at zero and goes up, so the bottom left corner looks like people with a slight amount of autogynephilia and no desire to be female. Also the x axis intersects zero, and it looks like a lot of the data points are on the ‘Would prefer not to be female’ side of the line, even if we set the cutoff at 1 on the y axis rather than 0.
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“It looks like there *are* cis AGPs from that graph, because the y axis starts at zero and goes up, so the bottom left corner looks like people with a slight amount of autogynephilia and no desire to be female.”
True, I’m overstating the case a bit: there is a direct relationship between autogynephilia and desire to be female such that more AGP = more desire to be female, and the relationship is strong enough that in the upper end of the AGP spectrum there’s nobody who doesn’t find being female appealing.
In practice, Ozy used things like sissy porn and Corruption of Champions as examples of porn that this “””slightly AGP””” person might use, and in another survey I’ve found that overtly AGP porn is only used by very AGP people. So it kinda cancels out.
(Men who are less AGP use lesbian porn and what I call “admiration porn”; admiration porn is essentially porn containing one woman and no men; so for example, nude pictures would count as admiration porn. Tangent: I’ve gotten a result in one of my surveys that almost all use of admiration and lesbian porn is AGP, but the sample size was low (n = 50), so I won’t guarantee that this is the case until I’ve replicated it.)
“Also the x axis intersects zero, and it looks like a lot of the data points are on the ‘Would prefer not to be female’ side of the line, even if we set the cutoff at 1 on the y axis rather than 0.”
So, the “desire to be feminine” on that diagram is actually “desire to be feminine minus desire to be masculine”; AGP is less strongly associated with not wanting to be male than with wanting to be female. (As far as I can tell, the association basically is that the satisfaction with being male only starts falling in the high end of AGP. Not sure though.) This means that most of the people near in “””desire to be feminine””” are actually relatively high in both desire to be masculine and desire to be feminine. I think it’d be unfair to say that these people have no desire to transition, as Ozy claimed; instead they often seem unsatisfied with the transition options, as they’d often press a magic sex-swap button if such a thing existed.
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Thank you for clarifying that :).
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New info on what Bailey thinks about autoandrophilia: https://www.reddit.com/r/Blanchardianism/comments/7noh57/can_we_test_baileys_take_on_autoandrophilia/
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